Author Topic: Diff. between Smart Flyin and Sellfish Flyin (Read 1090 times)

Kermit de frog · « **on:** December 08, 2004, 02:19:11 AM »

Warning, I have a hard time focusing on one thought, so bear with me.

Here goes:

There are lots of people who play to fight, for score, for rank, for fun and for other things.

I'm not sure what is meant when people say to "Fly smart". Does that mean, do whatever it takes to stay alive, or fly in a timid way? Please answer that question.

Example:
A Game of football. Two teams, one on offense and one on defense. The guy on offense (with alt advantage) bnz's the guy below (defense).
Offense fumbles = Guy with alt advantage loses that alt advantage.

Why do some people then runaway (guy who initially had alt advantage) just to extended to fight again only on offense or cherry pick.

If a football team fumbles the ball, they don't leave the stadium until the other team "agrees" to let them have the ball again to continue the game.

I say keep fighting, so what if you die, you'll just get another plane faster.

Running away doesn't make the game fun for others. Stop thinking only about yourself. By turning back to keep fighting, you are doing yourself and the other guy a favor.

There is a time to runaway; for example, no more ammo, fuel, missing too many parts, and a few other reasons.

What I am asking is that you runners use some common sense please.

I'll leave, vulching, ho'ing, cherry pickin and ack huggin for another topic.

Please, when responding, don't play the devil's advocate.
Also, I'm not saying to fly "my way" so don't put words in my mouth. If any of you try to respond in an angry way, I'll ignore your entire response, so keep it clean.

I know this is a game, but it's a MULTIPLAYER GAME, remember, there are Real people you are playing against so keep that in mind.

Cooley · « **Reply #1 on:** December 08, 2004, 02:34:27 AM »

I'd reccomend the "Flea-Flicker"

Jackal1 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 08, 2004, 04:01:10 AM »

Tune in next week for the final episode of Soccer Vs Football.

RTGorkle · « **Reply #3 on:** December 08, 2004, 05:09:09 AM »

What shellfish?

Ghosth · « **Reply #4 on:** December 08, 2004, 07:28:40 AM »

Kermit I wish you the best of luck!

btw, is that frog legs I smell frying?

DieAz · « **Reply #5 on:** December 08, 2004, 08:31:42 AM »

selling flying fish?

Westy · « **Reply #6 on:** December 08, 2004, 08:53:24 AM »

I'll add my .02 just for the halibut...

"it's a MULTIPLAYER GAME, remember, there are Real people you are playing against so keep that in mind."

But if what you want is TEAM oriented MULTIPLAYER GAMING then your best bet, for AH, is to await the "TOD. "
Otherwise, given the current MA style setup in AH your post is truly a simple complaint that others aren't playing your way.

That is all.

Carry on.

RTGorkle · « **Reply #7 on:** December 08, 2004, 08:55:58 AM »

Westy... is that you in the pic? Nice legs, Mate.

Vudak · « **Reply #8 on:** December 08, 2004, 09:57:58 AM »

I honestly believe that many people who fly "timidly" are not doing it because its "their $15 and they'll fly how they want" so much as that they keep getting killed shortly after engaging and have found that they are bored with 10 minute climbouts only to be killed in 10 seconds.

I also believe that these are the same people who make 3 on 1's, 4,5,6,7 etc.'s on 1's.

Now of course, the unfortunate thing is, unless they keep trying, they are pretty much condemned to flying this certain way their entire careers.

Perhaps, at least some of these people, would really like to "fight" but are afraid or discouraged. So, what can we do about it?

Personally, if I find that I'm getting cherry picked in X on 1's repeatedly by the same fellow over a period of time, I'll PM them and politely ask if they'd like to go to the DA. When we get in there, I win, they ask questions, I try to answer them as best as I can (and that's not very well, but obviously better then their groupies). The bottom line is - that person is now in a position where they can fight 1v1 and not have a 10min climbout.

Am I qualified to do this? Not in an extreme sense of the word at all. But the way I see it is this:

I was dueling Stang last night. He was destroying me in less than 15 seconds, sometimes even fewer. Now I can take this, I'm watching the films and I think I can push that to 20 in a few weeks or so's practice. But someone who've I've outlined above, probably can't take this, they won't even know what to watch for in the films. That will just discourage them even more.

So,since it take me more time to beat them, they're more likely to stick around and try out some things, ya know?

Guess I'm just saying - nomatter what skill you are, dueling's fun, it's a great way to practice, and it really does help out people. Be polite, don't bash them, get them in there, and show them a trick or two.

Ok, back to frying up frog legs

kj714 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 08, 2004, 01:06:11 PM »

Yawn

How about not chasing someone if you can't catch them quick?

My understanding of the fly smart thing is:

1. Try to engage from an advantage
2. Make a few good efforts at getting guns on nme without losing too much alt, speed, e, advantage.
3. if unable to accomplish #2, fly away, look for another fight, or try to regain advantage and return to original engagement.

"Also, I'm not saying to fly "my way" "

LOL, yes you are!

1. "I say keep fighting, so what if you die, you'll just get another plane faster. "
2. "Running away doesn't make the game fun for others. Stop thinking only about yourself. By turning back to keep fighting, you are doing yourself and the other guy a favor."

3."What I am asking is that you runners use some common sense please. "

Westy · « **Reply #10 on:** December 08, 2004, 01:17:34 PM »

Good eye RTGorkle!

It's been several weeks since I shaved em though. Are you doing anything Saturday night?!

Kermit de frog · « **Reply #11 on:** December 08, 2004, 02:53:29 PM »

Wow, thanks for the 3 responses so far.

Westy, you are right about, "If I wanted a TEAM oriented game, that I should wait for TOD." I am waiting. But that isn't wait I was trying to say. I was trying to say, if one is going to fight, then fight, not runaway like a uhh .......nevermind.

Vudak, you are probably right about reasons why some fly "timidly". I used to fly like that. My old callsign was EMI. I used to just bnz a guy and if I lost alt, I would runaway. That got really boring really fast. Also, lots of people would give me watermelon about it for GOOD reason. My response was, "well, looks who is dead...you, I'm still flying."
So what if they die in 10 seconds, I'll die in 10 seconds sometimes too. But the point is, I don't give up, I keep trying, and after awhile, you get better and last longer. If you just try to fight, you'll get better at it. Don't give up and say, well, I'll never to get good at dogfighting, so I'll just continue to bnz and run all day.
What you said about taking them to the DA. Well, I think I'll try that option, I don't know if that will work, but I'll try it anyways.

KJ714, chasing runners isn't fun for me, chasing runners and killing them is. My way of saying FU, die like the ****** you are. Your way for Flying smart sounds extremly boring to many people. But, I guess some people find that satisfying. Also, you did show that I some proof that I was saying to fly "my way". It really isn't "my way" but the right way?

Try and think about the quotes you used, instead of just using them to prove me wrong. That's all that I ask of you.

By reading the two post I have put on this thread, you got to admit that running away is the pus...i mean the wrong thing to do. I hope that if any of you decide to run at one point in a fight, that you think about what has been stated in this post.

dedalos · « **Reply #12 on:** December 08, 2004, 03:05:19 PM »

I think Vudak got it right.

Kermit, before I can give you a good answer I need you to define running for me. Lets say I have alt on you and after a few minutes of BnZ I don;t have the advatage any more. We are co alt and e and you are d800 behind me. At what point does it become running now

a) we both in the same plane so you are not going to close and I am not going to extent. We are stuck at d800.

b) I am a little bit faster and will eventualy be able to extend but it will take 10 mins to get out to 2K

c) ok, thats easy, I am in a lala and extent to what ever distance I feel confortable.

d) I run just long enough to get you in to other friendlies.

Just for arguing the point lets say that you are in a spit 9, and I already know you are good, since I could not kill you for 10 minutes with the advantage.

How many of the above cases is considered running?

acetnt367th · « **Reply #13 on:** December 08, 2004, 03:20:39 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by dedalos

I enjoy trying to shake someone off my 6 especially when we got close E states. That me of course. It is not easy to do this with a good pilot and when I do get the guy in front it just feels freakin great.

Though, many times I have pretended to run away from a fight to either let a goon in or get the 5 of the 7 guys chasing me to give up. I love a 2 vs 1 fight. ......

I still am not great at dogfighting but I hold my own now causing I have had lots of practice at getting shot down.

Acetnt

kj714 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 08, 2004, 03:50:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kermit de frog
Wow, thanks for the 3 responses so far.

Westy, you are right about, "If I wanted a TEAM oriented game, that I should wait for TOD." I am waiting. But that isn't wait I was trying to say. I was trying to say, if one is going to fight, then fight, not runaway like a uhh .......nevermind.

Vudak, you are probably right about reasons why some fly "timidly". I used to fly like that. My old callsign was EMI. I used to just bnz a guy and if I lost alt, I would runaway. That got really boring really fast. Also, lots of people would give me watermelon about it for GOOD reason. My response was, "well, looks who is dead...you, I'm still flying."
So what if they die in 10 seconds, I'll die in 10 seconds sometimes too. But the point is, I don't give up, I keep trying, and after awhile, you get better and last longer. If you just try to fight, you'll get better at it. Don't give up and say, well, I'll never to get good at dogfighting, so I'll just continue to bnz and run all day.
What you said about taking them to the DA. Well, I think I'll try that option, I don't know if that will work, but I'll try it anyways.

KJ714, chasing runners isn't fun for me, chasing runners and killing them is. My way of saying FU, die like the ****** you are. Your way for Flying smart sounds extremly boring to many people. But, I guess some people find that satisfying. Also, you did show that I some proof that I was saying to fly "my way". It really isn't "my way" but the right way?
Try and think about the quotes you used, instead of just using them to prove me wrong. That's all that I ask of you.

By reading the two post I have put on this thread, you got to admit that running away is the pus...i mean the wrong thing to do. I hope that if any of you decide to run at one point in a fight, that you think about what has been stated in this post.

The flying smart definition is I believe the generally accepted definition, from what I've read and learned from others on here, and at netaces.org, and so on.

I'm usually a fly till ya die guy myself, nobody can burn alt and e as quick as I can, and I die quite a bit, but I get some kills too. The runner thing doesn't merit much attention on my part because I usually don't waste time on a guy leaving a fight. I'd much rather battle a real opponent, rather than someone already at an extreme disadvantage. Unless theres a good vulch on, of course.

But ya know, there's not really a right or wrong thing to do, it's a game.

And I wasn't trying to prove you wrong about anything, just wanted to make sure you recognized your own bs.