Variants and New Planes we really need...

[Panzzer]

Originally posted by Urchin
Early war Russian stuff, a lot more Japanese stuff.  

P-39

And the Brewster, preferably the model 239...

Sorry Urchin, I quoted only the parts from your list that fitted my idea of what's needed next.

[Seagoon]

Originally posted by Urchin
Serious question.  Lets say HTC says, "Wow, Seagoon has a point" and introduces a new Russian unarmed transport, a new German unarmed transport, a new Japanese unarmed transport, and a He111 in the next patch.  

What does that bring to the table?

Its a good question, but the premise is fundamentally flawed.

The primary German transport the JU52/3m was not unarmed. Most midwar models had a 13mm MG131 in the dorsal position and two 7.9s for the windows on either side. Additionally, the JU52/3m carried a bombload of at least 500kg.

The plane is very different from the C47 - its armed, has three engines, is 20mph slower, and has very different flight characteristics. To say, "skin the C47 and you have a JU52" would be like me saying "skin the C205 and you have another mid-war Spit variant."

Similiarly, there are countless German Sd.Kfzs (halftracks) that had more armor than the M3 and a few assault varieties capable of carrying both troops and fielding some good weapons (20mms, multiple MGs, etc.) combinations. All would add interesting elements as well as providing genuine and needed axis equipment to the MA and TOD.      

Incidentally, I've checked, repainting the old Pacer will not make it into a Mini-Cooper.

- SEAGOON

[Karnak]

Urchin,

The Spitfire LF.Mk IX with 100 octane fuel at +18lbs boost did 336mph on the deck.  The Spitfire LF.Mk IX with 150 octane fuel at +25lbs boost did about 355mph on the deck.  However HTC has never chosen to model anything with 150 octane fuel, not even the perk Spitfire Mk XIV that really needs it to be survivable with the gangbang icon.


SeaGoon,

I think the Ju52-3M is more in the range of 45mph slower than the C-47A.  It would be a good addition, but I don't know how much usage it would see.

I'd like to see the

Ju188A-2:  A very good Axis bomber with a good payload.
Bf109G-14: Closes the biggest gap in the Bf109 set.
Spitfire LF.Mk IX or Spitfire LF.Mk VIII or Spitfire LF.Mk XVI: Closes the biggest gap in the Spitfire set.
P-38F: Adds an early P-38 so we don't have to fight the mid 1944 L every time.
Yak-1: Earlier version of the Yak.
I-16-24: Early war Russian fighter.
Pe-2FT: Mid war Russian bomber
G4M2: Early war Japanese bomber
B-25C: Early war American bomber that the Japanese might actually be able to intercept.
Wellington Mk III: Early war British bomber that the Luftwaffe might actually be able to intercept.
Ki-43-II-Otsu: Most important IJA fighter, numerically.

[Seagoon]

Hi Karnak,

I agree with your list with the exception of the 109 G14 and Spit LF IX. Bringing up the Russian, Japanese, and Italian planesets is a must! I do tend to think we need more non-US bombers (although I'll freely admit that the B-25 is a logical and good addition).

How about GVs? I've already said I believe we need the Sd.Kfz, and we are going to see the Sherman - of that I have no doubt, but on the needs side. What marked absences do we have? Seems to me that GV indirect fire would be an asset, I'd love to see the Priest added to the GV set at some point (along with a better indirect fire system).

- SEAGOON

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by frank3
But do we need more spitfire variants? We already what, 5 or so?

The same reason why we have a similar number of 109G's instead of 1 generic one.

Originally posted by Karnak

Ju188A-2:  A very good Axis bomber with a good payload.
Bf109G-14: Closes the biggest gap in the Bf109 set.
Spitfire LF.Mk IX or Spitfire LF.Mk VIII or Spitfire LF.Mk XVI: Closes the biggest gap in the Spitfire set.
P-38F: Adds an early P-38 so we don't have to fight the mid 1944 L every time.
Yak-1: Earlier version of the Yak.
I-16-24: Early war Russian fighter.
Pe-2FT: Mid war Russian bomber
G4M2: Early war Japanese bomber
B-25C: Early war American bomber that the Japanese might actually be able to intercept.
Wellington Mk III: Early war British bomber that the Luftwaffe might actually be able to intercept.
Ki-43-II-Otsu: Most important IJA fighter, numerically.

Add: Beaufighter Mk21

 Tronsky

[Guppy35]

Regarding the Spit LFIXe.  Let's be clear on something.  If the concern is the number of Spit variants.  I'm sure there isn't one Spit fan out there who wouldn't give up the 1942 Spit FIX with the 44 E wing, in a heartbeat for an LFIX.

So consider it a trade in for a more accurate model of Spit IX

That way the number of Spit variants doesn't change if that's an issue

Dan/Slack

[Shuckins]

Like to see an uncastrated F6F-5.    Several sources list it's true top speed at 20,000 feet as being 400+mph, and yet our version will barely hit 375mph with WEP.

P-39

P-63

Brewster Buffalo

Oscar

Oh, and PERK the LAG.  Can't see the sense in perking the Spit XIV and not that ultimate low-level dweeb plane.  

[Rasker]

How about the A6M3 version of the Zero?  Some consider it the best balanced version, better than the -M2 or -M5.

[gear]

Originally posted by Shuckins
Like to see an uncastrated F6F-5.    Several sources list it's true top speed at 20,000 feet as being 400+mph, and yet our version will barely hit 375mph with WEP.

Grumman F6F-5 'Hellcat' 400+???? what resourcre says that?




Performance   Range: 945 miles 1,521 km
  Cruise Speed: 168 mph 270 km/h 145 kt
  Max Speed: 380 mph 611 km/h 330 kt
  Climb: 2,980 ft/min 908 m/min
  Ceiling: 37,300 ft 11,368 m

http://www.orgsites.com/ca/cafsocalphoto/_pgg3.php3
 http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/grumman/f6f-5.htm http://frenchnavy.free.fr/aircraft/hellcat/hellcat.htm

[gear]

Ju188 good choice.


Ju-188A-2:  Identical to the A-1 except for deletion of dive bombing equipment.  It was powered by the Jumo 213A-1  engine driving VS-111 paddle blade propellers.  It was equipped with 4 under wing ETC bomb racks.  The upper turret could be equipped with the optional 20mm Mg 151.

[gear]

Originally posted by -tronski-
Add: Beaufighter Mk21

 
Then you may as well add the Ju88p:aok

[Shuckins]

Gear,

Without going into a lot of detail, I'll mention that the early F6F-3 had a faulty airspeed indicator system that consistently read 20 knots lower than the F4U-1 even when the two aircraft were flying side by side at the same speed.

To keep the Navy off their back about the "perceived" performance gap between Hellcat and Corsair, Grumman simply copied the Corsair airspeed indicator system.

As to sources that list the -5's airspeed as exceeding 400mph there are actually several:

1.  The Grumman F6F-5's pilot manual lists it as 405mph between 19,000 and 20,000 feet altitude.  If you ask him real nice, F4UDOA might e-mail you a copy of it.

2.  Performance results taken from tests run by Chance Vought.  That's right, the very company that built the Hellcat's main competition for Naval contracts listed the Hellcat's top speed as being greater than 400mph.  Chance Vought was given some Hellcats so that its strengths might be compared to those of the Corsair, and thus fixes for some of the Corsair's more glaring deficiencies might be remedied.

3.  Tests were conducted in late 1944 between a -5 Hellcat and a Zero 52 at NAS Patuxent River, Maryland.  The results were published in the Air Command Weekly Intelligence Summary, Allied Technical Air Intelligence Unit, South East Asia, "Flight Trials of Zeke 52," December 17, 1944.)  Since the Air Intelligence people were supplying vital information to our combat pilots which would help them fight enemy aircraft and live, I hardly think they would provide them with false or misleading information.  This test gave the top speed of the -5 Hellcat as 409mph at 21,600 feet, which was 75mph faster than the Zero 52's top speed of 335mph at 19,000 feet.

Regards, Shuckins

[straffo]

Originally posted by Shuckins
To keep the Navy off their back about the "perceived" performance gap between Hellcat and Corsair, Grumman simply copied the Corsair airspeed indicator system.

If I remember correctly the "corsair" installation didn't worked very well on the Hellcat

[Shuckins]

Straffo,

The first installation didn't work correctly because it did not copy the Corsair system completely.  A modification was made, which made it an almost exact copy.  This second system worked so well it was incorporated into the Hellcat production line.

Regards, Shuckins

[Jester]

I will have to agree that Japanese and Russian planes are what is need to balance out the aircraft set. While not all of these would be useful in the MA they are needed for the CT and Events.

TOP PRIORITY

JAPANESE: OSCAR, GRACE, BETTY, TOJO, JACK, JUDY, NICK
     Big need for the late war carrier planes.

RUSSIAN: Lagg-3, MIG-3, I-16, Pe-2 (or3), IL-4, TU-2
     Russian set needs attack planes and early war fighters.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SECONDARY

AMERICAN: P-39D, B-25C, BUFFALO, HELLDIVER, DEVESTATOR

ITALIAN: Cant Z.1007, MC.200, RE.201, SM.79

FRANCE: D.520, MS.406

GERMNAY: HE-177, DO-217

POLAND: PZL P.24, PZL P.11, PZL P.37

UK: Wellington, Whirlwind, Barracuda
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ADDITIONS TO WHAT WE HAVE:

37mm cannons to Stuka to make JU-87G
Panzerblitz rockets for Fw-190F series
Multiple small bomb racks for 109's & 190's
800kg bomb for KATE
Bomber version of Mosquito
Early War version of P-38
Mannable 5" singles on the Destroyers
Mannable 88's at the fields with G2A & G2G ammo
Carrier hook for the Sea Hurricane
JU-52 Transport (with gun armament & version to use as a bomber)


We can really get along for awhile without another "Ubber Bird" version of the Spit, P-51D, P-47, Corsair & ME-109, & FW-190 and definately the B-29.