F-14 weird destruction...

[Maniac]

Originally posted by SOB
NEVAR FORGET GOOSE!

LMAO!

[eagl]

Elfie,

That's only partially correct.  Even a "0/0" seat has an envelope within which an ejection must occur for it to be successful.  For example, any descent rate at ejection will raise the minimum altitude required and also alter the range of speeds at which the ejection must occur at to be successful.  A very high speed and low altitude ejection will typically result in severe flailing injuries that may or may not be fatal depending on pure random chance.  The same goes for high altitude high speed ejections.

Although American seats are very good and have an extremely high success rate when ejections occur within the envelope, the russian seats have a more flexible envelope in certain situations, specifically in the area of high speed ejections and unusual attitude ejections like that infamous airshow ejection where the plane was in a 70ish degree inverted dive at only a couple hundred feet altitude when the ejection occurred.

US seats are pretty darn good though...  The thunderbird ejection at Mt Home would likely have been fatal in one of the older pre-aces2 seats, and I've read mishap reports of successful t-6 ejections that occurred at very low altitudes.  The key is to make the decision to eject based on discussion and training received on the ground prior to ever getting into the jet in the first place, because the opportunity for a successful ejection might be fleeting.  As another example of this, US Navy seats are supposed to be certified to work when the plane is submerged, so if a US Navy plane dribbles off the deck, the pilot has to decide whether to risk an ejection at a weird angle or just wait for the plane to hit the water, then eject underwater.

[LLv34 Jarsci]

I read from some aviation magazines that there was at least one case when A-7 had cat failure during Vietnam war and the pilot was able to steer the plane just away from carrierīs path.

The pilot hit the water and the plane sank immediately. If I remember right he then tried first to eject the canopy (bad idea , 15 feet and sinking..) but then he recognized that he was going deeper too fast to unbuckle belts etc.. So he tightened the mask, said fast prayer and yanked the handles. He was about 30 ft deep at the moment.

He emerged from the water like a polaris missile (onlookers said that)  just missing the carrierīs superstructure and landed on the carriers wake. He was aboard 10 minutes later and still dripping wet in his nomex suit he walked to the flightdeck and climbed on one A-7īs cockpit trying to yank one stupenfied pilot out of the aircraft , at the same time telling that he lost the first and heīll go back ( or sumthing like that) . The poor guy had gotten somekind of shock there and was harassing planes readying for cat launch!!

Finally this episode ended when the Airboss used loudspeakers ordering the pilot brought to sickbay and ,if he resists, knock him out and use stretchers...


I was laughing my arnold off when read the end of that article where he requested a new plane to continue the mission. Like we here, back to the tower and up again. Could someone find that from web?

Also reminds me about story where A-7 or F-8 had unlocked folding wings and had to lock em in air using 0 g manouvers..

[Straiga]

Looks to me like a low speed compresser stall, it will blow flames out both directions.

 The "A" model with the early PW-TF-30-412 had threaded fan blades and this made the engine notorious for low speed compresser stalls. Now when they went to PW-TF-30-414 it still had problem at high altitude. There was also problems with in intake doors not adjusting for a given power setting.

 The "D" model had the F-110-GE400 which was capable of supercruise without AB.

 The "A"s ejection seat was a Martin Baker CRU7A Zero/Zero
 The "D" had a MB NACES Zero/Zero

 Dumping fuel it was normal to dump fuel and light the burner. You can dump and burn more fuel using AB, and also to burn off the fuel over board, down to your landing weight. Thats what we did all the time.

 No you dont want to egress after you hit the water.

 Straiga

[CMC Airboss]

Originally posted by Elfie
I believe the F-14's ejection seats are quite capable of a 0/0 ejection. Meaning no altitude or airspeed required for a successful ejection sequence. All Air Force fighters I am familiar with are capable of 0/0 ejections.

This statement is true.  However, the crew of the Tomcat in that video noted that they lost all control when the engine exploded.  With the altitude available, while in ballistic uncontrolled flight, they had time to eject.  The other crew that I mentioned could not recover since they were less than 100 feet above the water when control was lost.  Time is the key factor here - the crew has to recognize that there is a problem, quickly determine if there is anything they can do about, and initiate a ~1 second long ejection sequence if necessary.  Even a low and slow ejection is risky, time wise, as evidenced by Kara Hultgreen's incident.  The ejection sequence was initiated at only 20-30 degrees of bank.  Her seat didn't fire until the airplane had already rolled and pointed her below the horizon.  

MiG

[Maniac]

Listen to the Camera man shouting "YEAH" AFTER the explosion.

What a idiot.

[CMC Airboss]

Originally posted by ASTAC
Probrably was trying to show off...by dumping fuel (fuel dump is between the exaust nozzles) and then igniting it with his afterburner. you can see a fuel trail right before the explosion. Not a smart move if that was the case.

That fuel trail was actually smoke and debris pouring out from the damaged engine.  The Discovery Channel film crew slowed the sequence down frame by frame.  It was clear that the event started with a puff of flame just before the engine started coming apart.  I think the show's title was "Carrier: Fortress At Sea."  The investigation team no doubt was able to use the video footage to help determine a cause.

MiG

[Hawklore]

Originally posted by Maniac
Listen to the Camera man shouting "YEAH" AFTER the explosion.

What a idiot.

He may of had his face turned, noone in their right mind, in military service will say, YEAH!, after a plane looks to be in flames..

One officer told him to keep the tape rolling I belive too...

[Drunky]

Obvious photoshopped.

Bunch of girlie-men.

[Gunslinger]

Eagl is correct here that it's not so much a matter of altitude but of velocity.  At 500kts an aces II's leg guards will tear off causing the entire legg to be seperated from the hip by wind blasts.

The F14 has a martin baker in it but it is similar in the fact that the pilot and seat can't take it.  These guys are lucky to have survived if they did.

[SunTracker]

I know of at least two Mach1 ejections where the pilots survived.

[Nefarious]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I seem to remember that F14 engines blew up a lot in the 1990s...

It was a plague to the F-14A, in the late 80's Blades from the Engines were breaking off and penetrating the Fuel Tanks and other crytical systems.

I lived in Virginia Beach at this time, And I remember they were having numerous problems.

[Straiga]

I know of at least two Mach1 ejections where the pilots survived

 I agree

The F14 has a martin baker in it but it is similar in the fact that the pilot and seat can't take it. These guys are lucky to have survived if they did.

 I disagree the Marten-Baker CRU-7 and NACES ejection seats are great ejection systems.
  When a pilot pulls the face blind fireing handle over his face this starts a sequence that fires the canopy jettison jacks. When the canopys clears at this time for a split sec, your shoulders are reeled into the chair back and your arms into your body by the snubbing unit, this is to keep your body inline with the seat, preventing damage to your body and your feet are reeled into the forward part of the seat pan also. At this time a duplex drogue is deployed by the drogue gun and at the same time the ejection seat rocket motors fire at 21gs for 1/10 of a sec and then accelerates to 80gs per sec.
  Before the flight the pilot dials in his dress weight into the seats pitch control unit to set the proper efflux nozzle rise and fall, and varys the rocket thrust when the seat deploys.
  The duplex drogue does two things, it stabilizes the seat and deploys the main chute to deploy at an airspeed that does not shred the chute. If above 10,000 ft the barostat alows the chute to deploy at 10k or below. If this fails, a manuel system seperates you from the seat and deploys the chute.
 If the aircraft is submerged and the pilot has been nock out the system will clear you from the seat and inflate the may west and the pilot floats to the surface, but it doesnt fire the seat motors,  now think about that.
  The seats are tested at 630KTS IAS. But there have been successful egresses in the MACH range.

Even a low and slow ejection is risky, time wise, as evidenced by Kara Hultgreen's incident. The ejection sequence was initiated at only 20-30 degrees of bank. Her seat didn't fire until the airplane had already rolled and pointed her below the horizon.

 She was on short final in an "A" model and was waved of by the LSO but she keeped on getting behind the power curve. She had ample time to get the wave off.  The "A" was under powered and behind the curve and when it to started to roll she was 90 degrees to the flight deck at this point the ejection process started and she was shot into the water below the horizon at 80gs per sec.

 Straiga