Japan, N Korea at the brink of war

[LePaul]

Maybe Im the warmonger...but for once, let's see NK put up or shut up.  And when the put up, wipe them off the map once and for all.

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2

NK and Japan have hated each other for a very long time.

Yep  

You could lay most of the blame for the start of it on Japan's doorstep for they way they treated the Koreans during WWII.

Yep
 
But then they are also quite worried about the threat posed by NK, and the hatred they have for the Japanese people in general.  Fear can be a big motivator.

I believe, in not so many words, Japan has said to the US "do something about them, or we will"

Dont think China wouldnt have words to say about that too.

As with NK, there is a history there, too.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by Sixpence

I believe, in not so many words, Japan has said to the US "do something about them, or we will"

And that is exactly what we dont need.  We dont have bases there just for show, and if NK does lob a dirty bomb or two towards Japan, we are the ones that will have to respond, because we are the ones responsible for their defense.  Even worse, if NK pushes hard enough for Japan to militarize again, it could destabilize the entire region as countries from Russia to the Phillipines respond to a Japan that can reach out and touch someone again.  You want to see a nightmare?  Just let the stock markets crash over there, and see what happens to ours.  To the WORLD.  Sure, start a war with Korea.  And watch the world economy go right down the toilet.

As much respect as I have for Japanese culture as a whole, they definitely have some politicians that learned from the American school, and are just stupid enough to push for something like that amendment to their constitution.  God help us all if it happens.

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
And that is exactly what we dont need.  We dont have bases there just for show, and if NK does lob a dirty bomb or two towards Japan, we are the ones that will have to respond, because we are the ones responsible for their defense.  Even worse, if NK pushes hard enough for Japan to militarize again, it could destabilize the entire region as countries from Russia to the Phillipines respond to a Japan that can reach out and touch someone again.  You want to see a nightmare?  Just let the stock markets crash over there, and see what happens to ours.  To the WORLD.  Sure, start a war with Korea.  And watch the world economy go right down the toilet.

As much respect as I have for Japanese culture as a whole, they definitely have some politicians that learned from the American school, and are just stupid enough to push for something like that amendment to their constitution.  God help us all if it happens.

This is why NK does what it does. I don't think they would ever start any conflict, especially with a dirty weapon, you give the west a reason to to fight fire with fire, and NK would not last very long. They make threats to generate fear and the reaction we are getting here. They know what conflict would bring to the region and know that everything will be done to prevent it. They have nothing to lose, and everyone around them has everything to lose. I see it as blackmail, i'm not sure what it is they want, but i'm sure it starts with money.

[Saintaw]

Ahh.. I get it. GWB steps on NK's toes = good.
Japan does it = bad.

Why? Because Japan = bad/evil/let's bomb them again!

Sorry for being cryptic, but I'm trying to use the vocabulary span some of you will manage to understand.

Jeeebus....

[DoctorYO]

Don't we have some shiney nuclear toys that could help reduce the effort?  I'm all for an Alexander Haig approach of nuking em til they glow and shoot em in the dark

And what happens when we dont guess the wind currents that day and radioactive mess floods into eastern china, (or japan, Russia/siberia) what type of respnse do you think china will do when 1000000 of their citizens get radiological poisining..

Thats a clear act of war against China..  As long as you goto the front lines and make it all better im all for it Rambo...  (that big mushroom cloud thing you see what the hell do you think that is.. its not good for your health...)

As far as NK reniged on their treaties; all nations do that.. the key here NK made a offer to us.. (they knew we caught them and tried to come clean..) And we shunned them (as we should)but the axis speech gave them justification for weaponising their stock..) (you think china wants a nuclear armed NK next to them, Id say no.. but by us justifiying clear and present danger to them they had bargaining chips...  Same thing with Iran right now ...  its clear they are weaponising their stock too.... but again they can say look at our neighbor Iraq thats not happing here if we are nuclear armed... (trump card epecially with our all time low of international credibility)   Look at the US's posture towards india and pakistan after their nuclear programs got going..  Hence these other nations want the one thing that will deter the superior USA/coalition conventional force.. nuclear arms..  Its could be avoided if we respect these people in the first place.. Im not saying kiss their arse but basic diplomatic respect should be paramount and maintained with all countries even if we despise them..  It gives us more options tactically if things get hairy

Heres a good one for you in the good ole USA..  if you want to talk about treaties.....

http://www.indiantrust.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=Overview.Home  


or on the international level, the big one...

http://www.genevaconventions.org/

Abu jail...  violation...  Bridge jump murders  violation, head shot wounded man... violation, and whatever other atrocities have been commited by our forces.. My guess once we pull out of iraq in the next ten years IMO war crimes will be brought...  If they indict pinochet after all this time what makes you think the world cant indict Rumsfield or others for this...  Then whats going to happen when we drop out of Geneva conventions to protect them..  heh  geneva conventions are more for the treatment of our soldiers than the opposing force..  think about it...




DoctorYo

PS  you talk treaties you should read your history fellas..  treaties only work if all parties follow them... otherwise they are not worth the paper they are written on...

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Ping
Someone close the door... I feel a DRAFT

The election is over, no need to return to that fear tactic, the next election isn't for 4 more years here.

[Toad]

Originally posted by DoctorYO
.. the key here NK made a offer to us..

Unfortunately, their offers are proven worthless.

[Suave]

Is this story 50 years old or was it just a really slow news day ?

[DoctorYO]

Unfortunately, their offers are proven worthless.

You 13th Tas are the masters of disinfo..  your leader Voss has trained you well..   (now watch the dogpack tactics after this comment 3 to 1 half of the 13tas shows up to machine gun this thread with white noise..)

heres the fullstatement for the people too lazy to view your feeble attempt at context attack...

the key here NK made a offer to us.. (they knew we caught them and tried to come clean..)

thats what i said..  read for yourself....  why are you pointing out something out of context what i explained in the very next sentenence..  weak case batman;  youve been owned yet again..

using your philosophy im shure the world greatly values our credibility with the geneva conventions and ABM treaty..... or how bout preumptive war for WMD's then Saddam then Democracy..  whats next rocky and bullwinkle..... I could research more like the use of napalm and landmines but we dont need to go there..   I dont have enough time to baffoon you at the moment, I'll sledgehammer you as I always do as time permits....



DoctorYo

[indy007]

Originally posted by DoctorYO
Abu jail...  violation...  Bridge jump murders  violation, head shot wounded man... violation, and whatever other atrocities have been commited by our forces.. My guess once we pull out of iraq in the next ten years IMO war crimes will be brought...  If they indict pinochet after all this time what makes you think the world cant indict Rumsfield or others for this...  Then whats going to happen when we drop out of Geneva conventions to protect them..  heh  geneva conventions are more for the treatment of our soldiers than the opposing force..  think about it...p

Be nice if they worked. Lets face it, enforcement of Geneva conventions has always been slack universally. Otherwise we'd see people from China, the former Soviet Union, the current Russia, North Korea, Turkey, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Chile (oh wait, got 1!), the Philippines, Iran, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Sudan, the Congo, South Africa, Kenya, Uganda (massacres are quite popular in Africa), Cuba, Columbia...

I think it's kinda funny though that they can indict Pinochet, but Kissinger is running around trying to boost up his book sales.

I'd be interested to know how many people have ever been brought up on trial for war crimes, post-WW2, all over the world.

[Toad]

The bottom line, spin it as you will, is that the NK's deliberately took Clinton. They took him like a rube at the carney shell game gets taken.

Now, you want to keep dealing with these guys cause they say THIS time they'll play straight. Go ahead.

See, if we CATCH them cheating at the shell game, then they'll come clean about it and promise not to do it any more.

they tried to come clean

Right.

THAT'S classic. So, if we catch them, they'll try to make it right. The carneys have a name for guys that just keep coming back for more like you seem to want to do.

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Now you're on the trolley Toad.
-SW
I had too

[DoctorYO]

I never said Clinton didn't get taken..(actually it was albrights fat arse) you make the assumption that im some clinton lover..

Using that philosophy IMO GW got taken by Dr. Ahmed Chalabi on WMD's for his Shiite iranian agenda (who's Irans greatest enemy is last 100 years..  Uh Beavis....   Iraq..  Saddam)  Open your eyes..

Being in the army during the Clinton budget cuts was tough...  ( I watched training, unit size and equipment go into the gutter..) It got worse as time went on.. By the end they were prioritizing trash over combat power at the NTC... the smart people didn't stay and we were left with substandard leadership near the end of my tour..  So dont patronize me as some clinton slobbermonkey....  His name is slick willie to me..

Clinton did well in some areas and not so well in others..

And the spin comment sounds like your trying the "best defense is a good offense" tactic but i give you a B+ for effort..


DoctorYo

[Toad]

No, what I see is you saying we should keep dealing with (and giving huge amounts of aid to) people that have clearly shown themselves to be untrustworthy.

Doesn't make much sense to me. Probably doesn't make much sense to a whole lot of folks.

Throwing Chalabi up as a red herring doesn't help your basic premise, either. Chalabi doesn't equate to Kim at all, nor do Chalabi's intentions equate to Kim's nuclear ambitions.

I'll leave the patronizing to you; you clearly have a talent for it.