engaged defensive

[Lephturn]

Good discussion guys!  

Good point, the steep attack may prevent a head-on type of engagement.  However, your solution is valid for avoiding being shot... extending much farther before (gently) zooming back up.  It's still not the optimal attack, because any time you overshoot below the bogey, he is gaining E on you.  Versus a great accelerating plane like a George or an FW, you'll get killed quickly trying that for more than one pass.

The tricky bit is getting into position for a low/high attack without letting the bad guy turn his nose to you.  There's a balance there between enough separation, and too much.    Use lag pursuit and vertical moves like the high yoyo to stay in the bogey's rear quarter while you set up for the shot.  Most importantly, if your attack run is getting too steep, DON'T PRESS IT!  Far better to ease off before you get too close and transition it into trying to rope-a-dope your victim.  

Hmmm, lets see if we can come up with some films of alternate attacks in this situation.

[aknimitz]

This is along the line of ammo, but how about this.  Assuming I'm the 109, and I want to keep the steep attack (which is questionable I know).  How about instead of pulling off once I realize it is going to be a bit steep than I had anticipated, proceed with the attack.  As I dive, I hope to be able to put guns on via a deflection or even snapshot if that opportunity presents itself.  Ok, so I dive, no solution.  I continue the shallow dive, past the F6, and gradually extend and climb.  The only shot the F6 will have is on me hauling bellybutton in a shallow dive.  In which case the F6 will have to nose down quickly for guns on, which is a *very* difficult shot.  At a comfortable distance, which will vary by pilot, for me about 800/900 yards, go ahead and enter a zoom climb and re-commence the attack.

Comments?

Nim

[SpitLead]

Ditto what AKNimitz said.  We are basically saying the same thing.  

On another note, I would also say that continuing the dive below the defender allows you to bring your guns to bear much longer (especially important with the .50 cals) giving you a higher percentage of a kill on the first pass.  And, you get to see what damage (ping hit sprites), if any, you've caused.  If you attack and never go below the defender this requires you to pull up much earlier from farther away (d500-d800?)so you won't see whether the last burst caused pings or not and your shot window will be smaller.

Gee, I'm even beginning to convince myself on this one  

[SpitLead]

One more thing to consider on BnZ attacks is the guns your plane has and their effective range.  In this case, the 109 cannons (and seemingly most Luftwaffe planes) have poor range for effective hitting power.  The 109 pilot knowing this may have chosen to go below the defender because he needed to get close for any kind of effective shot. This of course would have forced him into passing below. For those airplanes with Hispano cannons which have a longer range and dare I say more hitting power (especially the CHog and Typhoon and Tempest with 4 cannons and even the Spits) I think one could get away with pulling up and not going below the con and still have an effective shot.  Airplanes with .50 cals are poor airplanes to use for snapshot attacks (I've gotten more assists that way than I want to think about).  Because of this, a longer shot window is needed (and you can afford to spray and pray a bit) and diving below the nme will afford the opportunity to do this.  

Just something more to think about...  

[ 08-09-2001: Message edited by: SpitLead ]

[Lephturn]

If you are going to overshoot beneath your opponent, you must do what you guys suggest... extend out of range before pulling up.  This will allow you an attack run and keep you from getting shot.  It can be a valid tactic given the right E advantage and comparitive plane performance.  The reason why you might want to avoid it if you can, is that any time you overshoot below your attacker, you give up some of your energy advantage.  Now if you are in a G-10 vs. a Jug, you no the Jug can't climb for crap, so this may not be a big deal.  Try it versus a good climber/accelerator though, and you won't have an energy advantage to work with for very long.

It's a valid attack, but keep your angle as shallow as you can and be very careful using it.