Author Topic: Regarding the T-34 (Read 2286 times)

Angus · « **Reply #15 on:** December 18, 2004, 02:17:40 PM »

"The Pz4 7.92mm pintle gun is useless as an air defense gun"
I disagree. I killed many a plene with that ping-pong thingie.
Of course they are reying to penetrate armour while I go for their wings or engine, hehe.
(I usually try to turn my tank towards them, so it's vs front armour)

Anyway, T34's are quite good on the deacking side.
How about some HE's?

Urchin · « **Reply #16 on:** December 18, 2004, 03:19:00 PM »

The T-34 has HE rounds available. Can't speak for how good they are, I've always been killed before I get a chance to use them.

Karnak · « **Reply #17 on:** December 18, 2004, 03:55:30 PM »

The T-34/76D that we have should be markedly inferior to the Panzer IV H. That it is bears out HTC's modeling.

If they'd wanted a more even fight, but a bit in the T-34's advantage, they would have added the T-34/85.

Pongo · « **Reply #18 on:** December 18, 2004, 07:15:47 PM »

I pictured the T34/85 as being clearly the better tank to include in AH vs the T34/76 43.
But I didnt envision the T34 getting quite so much frontal armour or quite such a fast turrent traverse or quite so much speed. All are signifigantly better then they are rated in other games.(but all tanks are too resistant to AT fire in Aces High.
Throw in the increadably generous drivers view and I guess it was better to have this model then the T34/85 cause with the full ROF of the 85 and its better gun it would indeed dominate the Panzer IVH

The whole tank battle thing in AH often comes down to knowing the sweet spot to shoot at a given vehicle. From any place but the sweet spot, even from the rear or side most of the tanks seem to often be invincible

Grits · « **Reply #19 on:** December 18, 2004, 07:48:36 PM »

Could someone list each GV's sweet spot? Thin skinned are not neccessary, but I dont know where to hit the Tiger or Panzer IV, I just shoot *at* them and hope they die.

Urchin · « **Reply #20 on:** December 18, 2004, 08:05:53 PM »

To the best of my knowledge...

In an M8

Vs a Panzer IV:

Front: Front of the turret will disable the turret in one hit (aim for the middle) at a decent range (~1000) yards.

Side: I haven't had much luck... firing at the back of the side will sometimes disable the engine, if you have already knocked out the turret you'll usually get an assist when some tank finishes off the guy.

Back: Back of the turret will knock out the turret, back of the body will knock out the engine (inside of about 500 yards, which is the only back shots I've ever taken)

Vs a Tiger

The Tiger is immune to the M8, you can't damage it from any side at any distance

Vs a T-34

I haven't fought a T-34 in a M8, so I can't say. Odds are good the M8 won't do much to it.

In a T-34

Vs a Panzer IV: Hitting the front of the turret will disable the turret at 800-1200 yards. Just aim at the middle.

Hitting one in the side of the body will usually kill one in one hit from 800 yards in, hitting the side of the turret usually ricochets off.

Hitting the back of the turret killed the tank in one hit the only time I've done it.

Vs a Tiger

The Tiger is basically immune to the T-34.. in the DA some guy let me sit 5 yards behind him and it took about 10 shots to knock the turret out (hitting the rear turret), the rounds ricochet off every other surface at every range.

Vs a T-34

Haven't done this much.. but the T-34 appears pretty much immune to other T-34s. I tracked one and then backed up when I drove up next to one headed towards me (came over a hill and there he was). I used the coax gun to track him, the HE round I fired there had no effect. All his rounds (all both of them) ricocheted off the front armor of my tank)

In a Panzer IV

Vs a Panzer IV

Again, hitting the front of the turret will knock out the gun, usually hitting the front by the driver will kill the tank (the little vision slit, aim there)

Aiming at the front of the side will usually kill the tank, aiming at the back of the side will kill the engine.

From the back, hitting the rear turret will disable the turret, hitting the body will kill the engine (and the tank, usually) .

Vs a Tiger

I'm sure someone better in tanks can tell you this.. I've killed them before by hitting them by the driver from the front, and you can disable their turret by hitting it, but it is by no means a sure deal.

Vs a T-34

Side shots work very well from 1200-1600 yards, usually first shot will kill the turret and second shot will kill the tank.

Rear shots again from very long ranges will kill a T-34 in one hit (in my experience, very long range is ~1600 yards)

From the front, it is hit and miss. Most time if I get hit in the turret from the front at 800-1000 yards I lose the turret. Longer ranges than that and it usually ricochets off. I had one Panzer bushwhack me as I killed his buddy, he came up over a hill and fired on me frontally from about 100 yards and it richocheted off.. so there isn't a guarantee.

I tend to lose my turret very easily in the T-34. but then survive a pounding that would make someone playing over a rusty can & string connection proud (5-6 hits for no damage, till I drive away).

Best advice I can give from the T-34 perspective is aim for the turret first no matter which angle you are firing from, it seems the easiest part to get through.

Any tank Vs an M8..

Hit it anywhere. Hell, use HE rounds, then you don't even have to hit it, just get close.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #21 on:** December 18, 2004, 10:14:25 PM »

I told you why and when I use T34 Urchin. I use it when its strength in armor and turet traverse are more important. I use pz4 when its strength in firepower is more important to me. I also clearly explained my statement that T34 is vastyly superior in every way other than relative firepower compared to Pz4.

Those are all facts, the rest is just your BS and anger about being shown to be wrong here...

"3. Armor seems weak"

When in fact T34 has much thicker turrent front armor than Pz4. You cant knock out T34 turret front in a T34, but you can knock out Pz4 turret front from a T34. That settles the issue, T34 has much thicker turret front armor, and also glacus armor and side armor...

The only issue is relative firepower between the two tanks. We agree that Pz4 obviousaly has the better gun, duh, thats perfectly historical, but you need to argue and make the T34 seem to be deficient in other respects, which it is clearly not.

T34 IS better in every way excewpt firepower. Do you deny that? If you do deny it, please show me that T34 is:

Slower.

More weakly armored anywhere a Tank round would hit.

Slower turret traverse.

You will not shopw that because its not true, because T34 is clearly better in those ways, meaning not firepower...

What you seem to want, what you seem to be whinig about is wanting some sort of supertank thays superior to Panzer4 in every way and is free of perk cost - meaning that you wont have to makle choice of relative strengths and weakneses... Well you wont get it until more tanks are added to balance the all around fights...

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #22 on:** December 18, 2004, 10:23:19 PM »

T34 has only one frontal armor weakspot thats vulnerable to fire from other T34s, even at the closest ranges.

=====

However I wont write here to tell you what it is and will let Urchin tell you what it is from his vast experience with the new tanks.. Surely he knows...

MiloMorai · « **Reply #23 on:** December 18, 2004, 11:08:45 PM »

T-34/85

T-34/76

both from http://www.battlefield.ru/map.html

PzKpfw IV Ausf. H

ARMOR PROTECTION
Armor Detail - Front - Side - Rear - Top/Bottom
Hull - 80mm@76° - 30mm@90° - 20mm@82° - 10mm@0°
Superstructure - 80mm@80° - 30mm@90° - 20mm@79° - 12mm@0-5°
Turret - 50mm@80° - 30mm@64° - 30mm@75° - 15mm@0-7°
Mantlet - 50mm@60-90°

715 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 19, 2004, 12:26:46 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ

T34 IS better in every way excewpt firepower. Do you deny that? If you do deny it, please show me that T34 is:

Slower.

More weakly armored anywhere a Tank round would hit.

Slower turret traverse.

You will not show that because its not true, because T34 is clearly better in those ways, meaning not firepower...

What you seem to want, what you seem to be whinig about is wanting some sort of supertank thats superior to Panzer4 in every way and is free of perk cost - meaning that you wont have to makle choice of relative strengths and weakneses... Well you wont get it until more tanks are added to balance the all around fights...

Slower: yes, way slower going up hill or across "bumpy" ground. It is almost immovable on slightly uphill bumpy ground.

More weakly armored: rounds bounce off the front much more often than Panzers, but other hits still kill the T34 quickly.

Slower turret traverse: no, but who cares when rounds from your T34 bounce off pretty much anything at point blank range and it takes the better part of a week to reload.

I do not believe people want a super tank vastly superior to the Panzer IV-H: they want a tank that has a reasonable chance against a Panzer, like the historical T34-76 did. They don't want something that is basically futile, which is what they got.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #25 on:** December 19, 2004, 01:58:24 AM »

You kids need to give up your 1941 fantasies about T34 uberness and invincibility born out of it facing short 50mm armed Pz3 and tepid 75/L24 armed Pz4s...

Its very fast, has great armor but the gun is weak compared to long 75mm armed Pz4. The 76mm was a great gun in 1940 and 1941 not so great in 42 and 43 - but its what they had.. DEAL WITH IT, its the way it was.

T34/76 was not some invincible death dealing monster by mid 1942, heck the russians wanted to replace it with a new design even then but couldnt afford the production interuption...

What you guys obviously want or expected is a T34 with equal firepower to Panzer 4. Thats not what T34/76 is or ever was and thats not waht you get.

The T34 you expected is essentially a 1944 model T34/85, which would make the Panzer4 utterly useless in AH as the T34 would hold all the cards now... In other words there would be no choice, you would simply take the t34/85 because irt would be better in every single way. What you have now is a choce. Take speed and armor or take firepower. Both have their uses at different times.

Pyro says an 85 will be here when Panther comes, at which point I'm surte all you will cry that Panther side armor is too weak comared to T34/85 side armor - but I will be here then to set you straight too...

As for this T34 weak armor myth compare the armor figures Milo posted and learn something for once, please....
The only issue is realtive firepower, not armor - as the T34 is clearly better armored all around.

And once again, jusat like I said in my first post: T34/76 is faster and much better armored than Pz4H. Pz4H has better overall firepower. Your choice as what u want...

This was true in WW2, this is true in AH2, this was true when I first wrote it in this retarted thread and it will be true for all time no matter how much you babies whine about it unless HTC changes something significantly...

DEAL WITH IT

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #26 on:** December 19, 2004, 02:23:05 AM »

Here is your fantasy T34...

Karnak · « **Reply #27 on:** December 19, 2004, 02:33:35 AM »

GRUNHERZ,

Actually the T-34/76D performs exactly like many (most?) of us expected.

As to your comments about the T-34/85, Panzer IV H and AH, well, the same can be said for aircraft. Why even bother having the La-5FN? The La-7 is better in all ways.

Now the problem that I have with the T-34/76 vs. the Panzer IV H is that it is not a remotely fair or fun fight for the T-34/76D. From a gameplay standpoint the Panzer IV H vs the T-34/85 would be more enjoyable because both tanks can kill eachother. The T-34.85 would have the advantage, and thus the lower ENY, but it would not be as lopsided as the Panzer IV H vs. the T-34/76D.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #28 on:** December 19, 2004, 02:46:33 AM »

T34/85 vs pz4 would be somewhat "fair" like Pz4 vs tiger 1 is "fair". Except that T34/85 is much faster and has much faster turret traverse...

No, the T34/76 is not performing as most expected, hence the whines. They are all crying because the gun is not as strong as pz4s - the gun that you have been used to for so many years...

The T34/76 can kill the Pz4, the Pz4 turret front is only 50mm VERTICAL! Thats effectivly thinner than T34 side armor.. GET THAT cry babies, Pz4 turret frontal armor is weaker than T34 side armor - oh the tragedy of this retarded threwad...

You are all just pissed because T34 does not have long range power of the Pz4 gun - the gun you have gotten used to killing Pz4s with for sooo long - you are all spoiled on this powerful set of German guns from Pz4 and Tiger 1.

So of course you ask for the T34/85 which not only gives T34 the firepower advantage or at least equality to pz4 but also significantly improves its armor advantage to where Pz4 has to fight it pretty much like a Tiger I..

Hillarious...

Karnak · « **Reply #29 on:** December 19, 2004, 02:53:55 AM »

GRUN,

Please try not to tell me that what I expected out of the T-34/76D is different than what we have. Go back and look at my posts and Pongo's posts about it before it was introduced. Pyro chastised me for being so pesimistic about it.

The T-34/76D is fine for what it is. It simply isn't any fun to go up against Panzer IV Hs in, and Tigers are completely immune. I hit a Tiger in the rear hull and rear turret from less than 5ft with about 10 rounds and got jack all. Literally no damage to the Tiger I. That isn't fun.

Every time I've been hit by a Panzer IV H or a Tiger I in the T-34 it has been an instant trip back to the tower.

I certainly did not expect a wonder weapon out of the T-34/76D. Some people did, I recall laughing at people who even in the week before v2.01 was released were wondering if the T-34/76D would be perked. I posted a very similar arguement about the differnece between the 75mm L24 on the Panzer IV Ds that thw T-34/76s built their reputations on and the 75mm L48 gun that the Panzer VI H has. Remember, the 75mm L48 is a better gun than the 85mm gun on the T-34/85. It has higher penetration.