Author Topic: spit question? (Read 456 times)

killnu · « **on:** January 12, 2005, 06:46:39 PM »

heard somebody speak of a spit5 with 4x20mm, any truth to that?

Fruda · « **Reply #1 on:** January 12, 2005, 06:55:38 PM »

It's quite true, as they were common.

killnu · « **Reply #2 on:** January 12, 2005, 06:56:53 PM »

we need one....

and thank you for response.
~S~

Guppy35 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 12, 2005, 07:34:01 PM »

For the third time today

4 cannon Spitfire Vcs were NOT common. The only place I can find any evidence of them being used in combat is with 2 Squadron SAAF in Italy as a ground attack aircraft. These were not Air to Air Spits. They had the Vokes filter under the nose, as well as a 500 pounder slung under the fuselage to go with the 4 20mm. They WOULD NOT have been very good performers due to the weight and drag penalties from the cannon and tropical filter.

There are other well known photos of 4 cannon Spitfire Vc on the USS Wasp where they launched from to reinforce Malta.

Once on Malta they had two of the cannon removed. Again the weight penalty really hindered climb, agility and overall performance. Two cannon were enough for the job as they figured if they couldn't kill it with two cannon they weren't going to hit it with 4.

Images from top to bottom. A 4 cannon Spitfire Vc Trop on the USS Wasp.

One of these Wasp launched Spitfire Vc after getting to Malta and having the two inboard cannon removed.

Image of 2 SAAF Spitfire Vc in the ground attack role.

There is no evidence I've ever seen to indicate 4 cannon Spits operated over France, North Africa or elsewhere beyond those 2 SAAF Spits in Italy.

Dan/Slack

bustr · « **Reply #4 on:** January 12, 2005, 07:41:08 PM »

Guppy35,

So lets loose the second pair of cannons. Just the clipped wing spitV with what ever gun package it had and no filter. I'm curious, what would the clipped wing do for us in a version common enough to add to the game?

Guppy35 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 12, 2005, 08:02:48 PM »

The reason they clipped the wings on the Spit V, XII and later some IXs, XVIs and VIIIs was to improve the roll rate. It was in response to the amazing roll rate of the 190.

Since the fights were at lower altitudes the performace wasn't greatly affected in terms of climb or turning circle but the roll rate definately got better.

What you'd be talking about in terms of the Spitfire V is the Spit LFVc since Aces High has 120 rounds of cannon per gun instead of the 60 of the Spit Vb

And you are talking about a Spit with a Merlin 45M, 50M or 55M that optimized performance at lower altitudes.

Dan/Slack

killnu · « **Reply #6 on:** January 12, 2005, 09:11:44 PM »

so...can i have it?

thanks dan, if anyone would know, it would be you i guess. thanks for info.
~S~

i still want it...

Kev367th · « **Reply #7 on:** January 14, 2005, 10:27:10 AM »

Looking around Dan I found one strange thing -
Can't find any mention of spit 14 with 20s and 303s as our Spit 14 has option of.
Only options I came across were 4x20's or 2x20s and 2x50s.

Still looking for MkV stuff.

Is one thing, our Spit 5 has the large cannon blister on the wing which would make it either a B or C.
Would also suggest that if it was the case they were not used in Europe that this has no bearing on whether they should be introduced into the game. Not as though the MA has historically accurate maps.

thrila · « **Reply #8 on:** January 14, 2005, 10:57:42 AM »

We have the Vc. The B wing only held 60 rounds in a drum. Also the fairing on the cannon differs slightly on the B and C wings.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 14, 2005, 03:18:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kev367th
Looking around Dan I found one strange thing -
Can't find any mention of spit 14 with 20s and 303s as our Spit 14 has option of.
Only options I came across were 4x20's or 2x20s and 2x50s.

Still looking for MkV stuff.

Is one thing, our Spit 5 has the large cannon blister on the wing which would make it either a B or C.
Would also suggest that if it was the case they were not used in Europe that this has no bearing on whether they should be introduced into the game. Not as though the MA has historically accurate maps.

The first Spit XIVs had Universal Wings with the 2 20mm and 4 303s. Later, in roughly July 44 the E wing XIVs started showing up in the Squadrons.

I have the logbook of a Canadian pilot who was a flight commander in 91 Squadron when they transitioned from the XII to XIV. He notes specifically when he got an XIVe. His first flight in an XIV was March 2, 1944. His first flight that he noted as an XIVe was July 14, 1944.

The AH Spitfire V is a Vc although the shape is of a Spit Vb. All three variants of the Spit V were used over France. I have photos of 91 Squadron Spitfire Vcs operating out of Hawkinge. There were really two large blister types for the Spit V. One on the Vb covered the ammo drum. The one on the Vc covered the feed unit for the cannon. As it was designed to hold two cannon they had a bulge seen on Vcs and on the very early IXs that could cover both feed units.

Note in the photo above of the Malta Spit Vc with the inboard cannon removed that it has the large bulge to cover both cannon feed units.

Now look at the one below of the very early 1942 Spit FIX that is essentially what we have in AH. It too has the large cannon blisters for the two cannon. Because it didn't carry the two cannon, they streamlined the bulge on later IXs to cover just the one cannon feed unit that was normally fitted.

Bottom image shows Bobby Oxespring and his pilots of 91 Squadron with their Spitfire Vcs in May 1942. They also had Vbs mixed in.

Dan/Slack