rummy's new spy agency

[Octavius]

Neo-libs, Neo-cons... yer all Neo-idiots.

[lada]

Originally posted by Octavius
Neo-libs, Neo-cons... yer all Neo-idiots.

aaahh ... anarchist soulmate ?

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by lada
aaahh ... anarchist soulmate ?

Lada don't count...He's from a State of Confusion.

[Octavius]

Originally posted by lada
aaahh ... anarchist soulmate ?

hail eris

[JB88]

Defense Espionage Unit to Work With CIA

By Josh White and Barton Gellman
Washington Post Staff Writers
Tuesday, January 25, 2005; Page A03

Defense Department officials acknowledged yesterday that the Pentagon has created new clandestine teams to gain better human intelligence for military commanders but emphasized that the program was developed with the cooperation of the Central Intelligence Agency, not to bypass it.

The Strategic Support Branch, housed within the Defense Intelligence Agency, was created to give high-level military officers more control over "actual intelligence" that they can use while making operational military plans, according to two defense officials who briefed reporters yesterday on the condition that their names not be used. They said that the program was a joint effort between officials at the Pentagon and CIA and that its organization has been running in its current form since October under funding authorized for this fiscal year.
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The existence of the Pentagon's new espionage arm was first disclosed publicly in a Washington Post article on Sunday, which said the program grew out of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld 's desire to end his dependence on the CIA for intelligence gathering. The article reported that officials said that elements of the new unit have been operating in secret for two years in Iraq, Afghanistan and in some undisclosed countries, and was designed to improve Pentagon abilities in what is called human intelligence, activities such as prisoner interrogation, scouting, and recruiting foreign spies.

At the CIA, an official who declined to be named said of Pentagon intelligence initiatives that "they've got the same objectives we do." Defense intelligence units, the official said, are especially well suited to collecting battlefield information on "bridges and tunnels and things like that, and frankly we don't always want to be pulling the CIA resources to do those."

On broader missions not directly related to combat operations, the official emphasized that the CIA has to have the final say. New Pentagon internal guidelines say a mission will be deemed "coordinated" with the CIA after 72 hours' notice to the agency. "It's critical not only to have coordination, but . . . we strongly believe the [CIA] chief of station has to be responsible" for intelligence activities in each country, the official said.

The disclosure of the program evoked widespread discussion on Capitol Hill yesterday, with some legislators unsure whether the program was something that they had authorized, and others defending the merits of the effort. The defense officials said confusion arose because the program was authorized within the FY05 budget under a different name -- Humint Augmentation Teams -- and was later changed.

The chairmen of both the House and Senate Armed Services committees said yesterday they supported the programs.

"In my opinion, these intelligence programs are vital to our national security interests, and I am satisfied that they are being coordinated with the appropriate agencies of the federal government," Sen. John R. Warner (R-Va.) said in a prepared statement released after a private briefing with Stephen Cambone, undersecretary of defense for intelligence. "The committee records indicate that the appropriate budget documents were sent up by the department, reviewed by the committee, and authorizations relative to these programs were incorporated in the FY05 bill."

Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.) agreed.

"The war on terrorism has made it clear that we need to urgently improve our nation's human intelligence capabilities, including those of the Department of Defense when conducting military operations," Hunter said in a prepared statement. Some Democrats, however, said the new intelligence program should be the subject of hearings.

Rep. Ellen O. Tauscher (D-Calif.), a member of the House Armed Services Committee, said lawmakers have a duty to examine the program. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) asked the Senate Intelligence Committee to look into the issue.

"I've been asked a number of questions, questions which I cannot answer, about reports that the Department of Defense has created new intelligence special forces and has changed the guidelines for reporting to Congress," Feinstein said. "I think that it is within the oversight responsibility of the Intelligence Committee to have answers to these questions."

Staff writer Chuck Babington contributed to this report.

[Flit]

Originally posted by eagl
I'm glad to see that humint is finally being funded and implemented without so much oversight that it collapses.  Real effective humint needs to be given clear and morally sound orders, then let loose on a very long leash that's only twitched occasionally to keep them on the right path.

Congressional hearings to let every damn busybody or security leak with an agenda find out all the details will do nothing but ruin any good work this new unit is doing.  They might as well tape "US humint asset" on their shirts and wear cowboy hats after congress gets through destroying opsec and spreading the details through politically targeted leaks.

If McCain wants to see the details, he's powerful enough that we ought to pull him inside the vault and just show him.  Fine, give him that because he can ruin everything if we don't.  But if we don't do everything possible to limit access to a limited but trusted set of congressmen (which I suspect has already happened), we're probably condemning the agents and their contacts to death and very likely destroying the program entirely.

No, I'm not being melodramatic, and yes it's that serious.  Opsec is damn serious because even tiny, seemingly innocuous leaks can get individuals compromised and killed with no way to save them or their contacts.  In the military this stuff is compartmentalized in extreme ways, and the details are kept separate even from people with the highest clearances, because if more than one person knows it then it's not a secret anymore, national interests will be compromised, and people can/will get killed.

In the media recently I've seen media leaks of information that I know very well is highly classified, because some congresscritter or staffer doesn't trust the president.  Those leaks cause measurable damage to our national security and put people's lives at risk.  Every time a congressman leaks something he puts MY life at risk for his own political agenda.  I have yet to see a leak that actually points to any wrongdoing.  They're all explained as an unnamed staffer leaked something to the media because they think the president is doing something for the wrong reasons.  Thanks prettythanghat, I needed more danger in my life because you don't like the president.  Get out more votes next time you schmuck, and don't take your whiny complaints out on me by spilling secrets you swore to protect and signed a binding contract to not disclose.

Anyhow that's my take...  We do lots of secret stuff with full approval of the people who need to give the approval, and frankly people just don't need to know about it because if they just STFU, it'll work out.  Traitors used to be hanged for spilling secrets because they are endangering the lives of the entire nation, but right now it's cool and hip for congressmen to spill secrets if they're holding a grudge.  Hang a couple of them and maybe they'll keep their damn mouths shut unless it's really important.  If it's so important, they'll still be willing to risk their lives to get the word out, so it won't deter honest patriotic whistleblowing.  It'll just shut down the whiny complainers who were left out of the loop because they had no need to know.

What he said

[JB88]

there are things that we should know, and things that we do not need to.  

but im pretty sure that its within the right of the american taxpayer and citizen to know what organizations thier government is running.  the results and the methods can be secret, but i for one am not keen to turning a blind eye to ANYTHING when i comes to government expansion.

this probably isnt a terrible example of that.

carnivore was.

[eagl]

JB88,

You're right, and guess what - after all the hubub and posturing by the congressmen, it was very quietly reported today that the congressional defense comittee that just got briefed on the organization in question is fully satisfied that the military did everything right and people should basically STFU and go back to whatever they were doing before they got all excited and wet about the chance to slam the President and his advisors.

Seriously.  That's what they said, mostly.  McCain was curiously silent although that's not suprising since he was one of the worst people shouting about how the military was trying to pull a fast one.

In the end, the real concern had nothing to do with the existence of the organization, rather it had to do with the perception created by the news organization that started this whole thing that the military had arbitrarily decided not to report it's operations via proper channels, and this was a sign that the military had unilaterally altered it's reporting and accountability procedures.  Nothing could be farther from the truth, and even the CIA is saying that the new ops support group is coordinating it's activities with them to avoid duplication of effort, and that the new group typically reports to the local area commander as it should according to the standard military chain of command, not to a civilian oversight committee.

It's no different than if my squadron deploys to, say, Iraq.  We would be attached to the expeditionary wing in the deployed location and would report directly to the theater commander.  Just because we're in-theater, and the "492nd expeditionary fighter squadron" was created for the purposes of the deployment, doesn't mean that we suddenly have to report to some civilian.  Our military chain of command handles that, and that's exactly how it was being handled in this case.  It's just another military unit that happens to be worldwide deployable and has an intelligence gathering mission.  As long as they're not violating our laws of armed conflict and other policies, their daily activities are not directly reportable to any civilian agency unless of course they are specifically directed to by their immediate civilian boss, Mr. Rumsfeld.

Maybe this sort of thing should be explained a little better to the public more often, but when these things blow up the news agencies will report the shocking BS right away, but somehow fail to report the rest of the story even when the rest of the story is quite informative and educational as in this case.  They made a big deal about how the pentagon was trying to sneak one past congress, and when that was proven to be completely unfounded BS, they dropped the story instead of explaining what really happened.  That is sad but typical.

[JB88]

damn well stated.



god i love democracy.