Author Topic: Make Iran Make the 1st Move  (Read 4148 times)

Offline Holden McGroin

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Make Iran Make the 1st Move
« Reply #150 on: January 30, 2005, 11:30:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by genozaur
And why are you really in Iraq, again ?

In both cases it looks like propaganda cover-up of some other, deeper reasons.

Could these moves (occupation of Afganistan and Iraq) be of some global strategic importance for the USA administration?


Lucky for us Bin Laden chose to hide in a country with a dark-age extremist Islamic government.  Otherwise we could not have pulled off the ultimate confidence game: destroy our buildings, kill 3000 of our citizens, blame it on Bin Laden and gel UN opinion to allow the Afgan operation.

Genozaur, ever hear of Occam's razor?   If not, check out the Jodie Foster section at the video store.
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Offline Raider179

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« Reply #151 on: January 31, 2005, 12:08:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by genozaur
This is 99% Iranian propaganda ! :D


That is what  I think too Genz. After all dont we use planes such as that P-3 that hit that chinese fighter with equipment to do this type of stuff at a distance outside of their territory?

Offline genozaur

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« Reply #152 on: January 31, 2005, 12:14:41 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Lucky for us Bin Laden chose to hide in a country with a dark-age extremist Islamic government.  Otherwise we could not have pulled off the ultimate confidence game: destroy our buildings, kill 3000 of our citizens, blame it on Bin Laden and gel UN opinion to allow the Afgan operation.

Genozaur, ever hear of Occam's razor?   If not, check out the Jodie Foster section at the video store.


I don't use razor. I have impressive Islamic beard.
But I was baptized. Who am I ? (THE ANSWER: retsoF eidoJ ton)  :D

Offline genozaur

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« Reply #153 on: January 31, 2005, 12:16:34 AM »
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Originally posted by Raider179
That is what  I think too Genz. After all dont we use planes such as that P-3 that hit that chinese fighter with equipment to do this type of stuff at a distance outside of their territory?


:aok :D

Offline Holden McGroin

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Make Iran Make the 1st Move
« Reply #154 on: January 31, 2005, 12:44:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by genozaur
I don't use razor. I have impressive Islamic beard.
But I was baptized. Who am I ? (THE ANSWER: retsoF eidoJ ton)  :D


Toidi Egalliv Eht?

Just a guess.
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Offline SaburoS

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Make Iran Make the 1st Move
« Reply #155 on: January 31, 2005, 12:49:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
What he said was that he prefered we waited until we got nuked in order to respond rather than act to prevent a nuclear attack before it happens.

Then he said we should whipe out every man, woman and child in the country responsible. That hardly sounds reasonable now does it?

I'd rather prevent the nuclear attack, and that's what we will probably do. Less loss of lives in both countries compoired to GS's idea of nuclear holocaust.


The ability we have in completely destroying another civilization whether it be by Nukes, Chems, or Bios has been what's been protecting us from any WMD attack. We have the ability and will use it if we're attacked by another country.
Like it or not, that's been the best reason why we haven't been attacked by another country.

We're going down a very dangerous and costly road if we're going to go around attacking those that we feel might attack us just because they have the capability of what they might do if they chose to do it. Looks like we fear them, and we shouldn't.

The USSR and China were much bigger threats because they actually had the capability and had our cities targeted. LOL, they didn't like us either.
Let's say Iran tries to deliver a nuke and detonate it on US soil.
How does it get here? It'll escape detection? If we found it and traced it to Iran, bye-bye Iran.
What type, fission or fusion? How deadly? How large would it be?
It just isn't going to happen as it would assure their destruction.
Now we can change course and stop the saber rattling and open up diplomatic relations with Iran. Iran would make a good ally.
It's high time they saw the good in America instead of the bad side as we've not really given them a confidence in us as an ally.
Once we stop fearing each other, the sooner we could move forward in a mutually beneficial relationship.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline Raider179

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Make Iran Make the 1st Move
« Reply #156 on: January 31, 2005, 02:02:49 AM »
I dont think it would be that hard to get one here. I would think it rather easy to take one in by boat. After all these drugs get in by the ton. You dont even have to get it in. Just close enough to the port of a major city and its gonna do plenty of damage.

As for knowing where it came from that will probably not be difficult. Nukes leave residual matter that can be traced. (If I remember correctly.) The only problem would be is if they were smart enough to use someone else's fissionable material.

Seems like the more I think about it the reason we might go after Iran now is because if we had to later then they would be nuclear armed and that would pose a signifigant threat to troops in theater.

They will not be our Ally. you can forget that one. They hate America with a passion. They hold anti-American rallies and the like.

Offline Rasker

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Make Iran Make the 1st Move
« Reply #157 on: January 31, 2005, 02:59:11 AM »
The Iranian opposition groups are united in opposing an American initiative to liberate Iran from the IRI regime by American troops.  They feel it would only solidify the regime's position, as happened during the Iran-Iraq war.  The exiled opposition  tend to call for economic sanctions against the regime, boycotts of Western firms that prop up the  regime, and support for groups working to overthrow the regime from within.    The only question is whether the US, Israel and the nascent Iraqi government can afford to give the Iranian opposition  time to overthrow the mullahs before taking action themselves.

I like to follow the Iranian liberation movements on the web.  Here are a few of the good pages:

http://www.activistchat.com/

http://www.daneshjoo.org/

http://www.iranvajahan.net/english/

http://www.democracyforiran.de/Iran%20-%20past,%20present%20&%20future%20-%20Present%20Pictures%203.htm

Offline beet1e

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off topic, but worth it
« Reply #158 on: January 31, 2005, 03:46:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
We cannot risk letting Iran have nukes. It's sad , but very true.

We have the power to stop them from doing something that could threaten us, and we will use it.
NUKE, think about what you said here next time we have a gun thread. Your logic here is a complete reversal of your gun thread logic. You have no problem with nuts having guns, so why worry about nuts having nukes?

OK, so you be me and I'll be you...

... A nuke is just an inanimate object. It's not going to get up all by itself and blast you to hell - so where's the problem? Nukes don't kill people, only people kill people. America, Britain, France, Russia, Israel all have nukes - proof positive that nukes are not the problem.  And if you DO one day get killed by a nuke, always remember that it wasn't the nuke's fault.

Join the NRA today! (Nuke Redistribution Alliance) We believe that no country shall take away the right of another country to have a nuke!

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #159 on: January 31, 2005, 03:47:11 AM »
Wow, I think my comment (very first reply) went way over everyone's head...
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Offline SaburoS

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Make Iran Make the 1st Move
« Reply #160 on: January 31, 2005, 03:47:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
I dont think it would be that hard to get one here. I would think it rather easy to take one in by boat. After all these drugs get in by the ton. You dont even have to get it in. Just close enough to the port of a major city and its gonna do plenty of damage.

As for knowing where it came from that will probably not be difficult. Nukes leave residual matter that can be traced. (If I remember correctly.) The only problem would be is if they were smart enough to use someone else's fissionable material.

Seems like the more I think about it the reason we might go after Iran now is because if we had to later then they would be nuclear armed and that would pose a signifigant threat to troops in theater.

They will not be our Ally. you can forget that one. They hate America with a passion. They hold anti-American rallies and the like.


Why do you think the Iranians hate us?
What have we ever done to them that they can consider positive?
When have they ever attacked us?

Let's see, the Shah and his CIA and Mossad trained SAVAK.
They take our hostages (they were pissed).
We freeze their assets (We were pissed).
We urged Saddam's starting his invasion of Iran as we thought the post revolution Iran as weak militarily.
We were instrumental in Saddam gettin his hands on some WMDs that were used against the Iranians.
When we were supposed to be a neutral patrolling the Gulf during that Iran/Iraq war, we ended up taking sides after one of our ships gets bombed (Exocet) by an Iraqi Aircraft!
We ended up shooting down (accidental) an Iranian airliner which resulted in the deaths of all of its civillian passengers.
So far not so good for US/Iran relations.

The relations start to thaw under HWB and the Clinton Administrations.

Iran/US seem close to opening up diplomatic relations. We're not so seemingly pissed off at each other.
Anti-American rhetoric seemingly slows down in Iran.

Then comes the "Axis of Evil" speech by G. Bush.
We have targeted Iran.
That along with Invading Afghanistan, then Iraq (on false WMD charges).
We've got troops beyond Iran's western border in Iraq.
We have troops beyond Iran's eastern border in Afghanistan.
We have "allies" in Turkey, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia, all close to or on the border with Iran.

Iran is fearing us right about now, so the increase in anti-American sentiment is not surprising.
You think all of our anti-Iranian speeches and threats are going to have them like us?

We've shown that we have invaded other countries, occupied them, and overthrew their govt's.

Right now is not the time to be rattling our sabres.
We should be extending the olive branch and try to develop our relations, both diplomatically and in business.

War and hatred is just too costly in wasted dollars and lives lost.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #161 on: January 31, 2005, 03:47:35 AM »
Thats a ridiculously childish analogy for somebody your age beetle...

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #162 on: January 31, 2005, 03:51:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Thats a ridiculously childish analogy for somebody your age beetle...
LOL! Of course - I was talking to NUKE! :)

But don't get me wrong. I love NUKE.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #163 on: January 31, 2005, 03:53:14 AM »
Heh, but the analogy is still wrong.

Offline Raider179

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Re: off topic, but worth it
« Reply #164 on: January 31, 2005, 12:39:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
NUKE, think about what you said here next time we have a gun thread. Your logic here is a complete reversal of your gun thread logic. You have no problem with nuts having guns, so why worry about nuts having nukes?

OK, so you be me and I'll be you...

... A nuke is just an inanimate object. It's not going to get up all by itself and blast you to hell - so where's the problem? Nukes don't kill people, only people kill people. America, Britain, France, Russia, Israel all have nukes - proof positive that nukes are not the problem.  And if you DO one day get killed by a nuke, always remember that it wasn't the nuke's fault.

Join the NRA today! (Nuke Redistribution Alliance) We believe that no country shall take away the right of another country to have a nuke!


gotta be joking. Your gonna give guns to extremists? Their rights are protected too huh? Sorry but I dont agree. Only law-abiding, non-fanatical people should be allowed to posses weapons of any kind. Now you talking nukes. One guy with a friggin machine gun could kill a couple thousand maybe if they all just stood there for it. 1 guy with a nuke could do what 3 or 4 million in the right place. Relating a firearm to a nuke is pure fantasy. Iran wants them to either keep us at bay or use them to exert dominance in the region. Either way that is a threat to us and World Security and that cannot be allowed to happen.

By the way why you are quoting all those countries that have nukes and there hasnt been a problem I suggest you read up on Pakistan and India, In case you forgot they were detonating them in retaliation to each others testing. That is a pure example of a nuclear detonation causing another country to use one. Testing or not I am not in favor of letting any more countries have them. I dont really care who it is. Enough of them exist in the world. No One needs them.

If I can put it like this maybe you will understand. In america It is illegal to own machine guns. (in most states and without going through appropiate checks and getting licensed) The Police are allowed to use them. I look at Nuclear weapons as the same. The good guys have them to make sure the bad guys dont get out of line.