I'm pretty surprised none posted about Auschwitz

[wombatt]

Originally posted by JB73
well if they were slaves in the US they want 40 acres and a mule for every african american with inflation that's $1.4 trillion


http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/03/26/slavery.reparations/

how long until some innane lawsuit is brought against the german government?



better add a disclamor.... i in NO way condone slavery or genocide, or any persocution of a race of any kind.

i only was implying there have been travesties of humanity for more than millenium, and how can we in our modern society make up for these? AND why should should we in modern society be responsible for every action of whatever ancestor of ours did?

Might want to start with the tribal cheifs in Africa who sold most of the slaves to the white man.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by JB73
well if they were slaves in the US they want 40 acres and a mule for every african american with inflation that's $1.4 trillion
 

Just a little aside...

On January 16 1865, Forty Acres and a Mule was inacted.

In the midst of his 'March to the Sea' during the Civil War, General William T. Sherman and Secretary of War Edwin M. Stanton met with 20 Black community leaders of Savannah, Georgia.

Based partly to their input, Gen. Sherman issued Special Field Order #15 on January 16, 1865, setting aside the Sea Islands and a 330-mileinland tract of land along the southern coast of Charleston for the exclusive settlement of Blacks. Each family would receive 40 acres of land and an army mule to work the land, thus "Forty Acres and A Mule."

So the Sherman / Stanton 40+ mule rule was a local rule for the sea islands and a specific tract od Carolina coast.  Gen. Oliver Otis Howard attempted to enforce this rule on all confiscated or abandond confederate land.

The rule was a military rule without congressional backing and was countermanded by President Andrew Johnson as soon as he had knowledege.

[WMLute]

I've watched three diff shows this week pertaining to either Auschwitz, or the German death camps.  I feel that it IS getting coverage here in the U.S.

Granted, not so much on the News stations, but PBS had a great special on last night that gave me alot to (re)think about.  I for one hope what happened at the death camps is never forgotten, or regulated into "that happened a long time ago, and we have changed since then" history.

[Hawklore]

PBS here is doing a special on it, 6 hours worth..

Lots of neat information, as well as disturbing..

[JB73]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Just a little aside...

On January 16 1865, Forty Acres and a Mule was inacted.

In the midst of his 'March to the Sea' during the Civil War, General William T. Sherman and Secretary of War Edwin M. Stanton met with 20 Black community leaders of Savannah, Georgia.

Based partly to their input, Gen. Sherman issued Special Field Order #15 on January 16, 1865, setting aside the Sea Islands and a 330-mileinland tract of land along the southern coast of Charleston for the exclusive settlement of Blacks. Each family would receive 40 acres of land and an army mule to work the land, thus "Forty Acres and A Mule."

So the Sherman / Stanton 40+ mule rule was a local rule for the sea islands and a specific tract od Carolina coast.  Gen. Oliver Otis Howard attempted to enforce this rule on all confiscated or abandond confederate land.

The rule was a military rule without congressional backing and was countermanded by President Andrew Johnson as soon as he had knowledege.

funniest thing of it all to myself is the "slaves" were promised more than us american indians were in the end...


as drew carey said "guess we shoulda fought harder"

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by JB73
funniest thing of it all to myself is the "slaves" were promised more than us american indians were in the end...


as drew carey said "guess we shoulda fought harder"

Actually the Navajo reservation far exceeds the small amount of Carolina promised in Sherman's edict.

[JB73]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Actually the Navajo reservation far exceeds the small amount of Carolina promised in Sherman's edict.

not if you caount the 40 acres for every african american in america at the time, let alone how many today

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by JB73
not if you caount the 40 acres for every african american in america at the time, let alone how many today

That's just the point... it wasn't promised for all slaves everywhere in the confederacy.  Only those on the barrier islands in SC.

[beet1e]

I think straffo was surprised that more people didn't mention it on this board. Obviously it's going to get TV coverage everywhere.

Straffo - good job the Auschwitz Liberation did not occur on the 11th September, otherwise we would be forbidden from mentioning it or any of the commemorative ceremonies. I remember what happened last time.

[SLO]

remembering the slaughter of Jews is important...

NEVER AGAIN WE SAID...

then Rwanda happened...

2 faced moronic freaks

[Wotan]

I think straffo was surprised that more people didn't mention it on this board. Obviously it's going to get TV coverage everywhere.

It was best left of the board all together. You can see by the replies that every little Ami natiionalist won't take time to remember the dead but will use the opportunity to 'Euro bash'

Straffo you should know better by now.

If you any of you would like to learn some history then here's a link to the Axis History Forums's section on Holocaust & 20th Century War Crimes

As Hawkwind mentioned PBS is running a series entitled: 'Auschwitz, The Nazis and the Holocaust'. It ran in the UK earlier in the month.

Also read  Rudolph Höß, Death Dealer: The Memoirs of the SS Commandant at Auschwitz by Steven Paskuly

p155-157

The Gassings

Before the mass destruction of the Jews began, all the Russian politruks [Communist Party members] and political commissars were killed in almost every camp during 1941 and 1942. According to the secret order given by Hitler, the Einsatzgruppe [special troops of the SS] searched for and picked up the Russian politruks and commissars from all the POW camps. They transferred all they found to the nearest concentration camp for liquidation. The reason for this action was given as follows: the Russians were murdering any German soldier who was a member of the Nazi Party, especially SS members. Also, the political section of the Red Army had a standing order to cause unrest in every way in any POW camp or places where the POWs worked. If they were caught or imprisoned, they were instructed to perform acts of sabotage. This is why these political officials of the Red Army were sent to Auschwitz for liquidation. The first small transports were shot by firing squads of SS soldiers.

While I was on an official trip, my second in command, Camp Commander Fritzsch, experimented with gas for these killings. He used a gas called Cyclon B, prussic acid,[1] which was often used as an insecticide in the camp to exterminate lice and vermin. There was always a supply on hand. When I returned Fritzsch reported to me about how he had used the gas. We used it again to kill the next transport.

The gassing was carried out in the basement of Block 11. I viewed the killings wearing a gas mask for protection. Death occurred in the crammed-full cells immediately after the gas was thrown in. Only a brief choking outcry and it was all over.[2] This first gassing of people did not really sink into my mind. Perhaps I was much too impressed by the whole procedure.

I remember well and was much more impressed by the gassing of nine hundred Russians which occurred soon afterwards in the old crematory because the use of Block 11 caused too many problems. While the unloading took place, several holes were simply punched from above through the earth and concrete ceiling of the mortuary. The Russians had to undress in the antechamber, then everyone calmly walked into the mortuary because they were told they were to be deloused in there. The entire transport fit exactly in the room. The doors were closed and the gas poured in through the openings in the roof. How long the process lasted, I don't know, but for quite some time sounds could be heard. As the gas was thrown in some of them yelled "Gas!" and a tremendous screaming and shoving started toward both doors, but the doors were able to withstand all the force. It was not until several hours later that the doors were opened and the room aired out. There for the first time I saw gassed bodies in mass. Even though I imagined death by gas to be much worse, I still was overcome by a sick feeling, a horror. I always imagined death by gas a terrible choking suffocation, but the bodies showed no signs of convulsions. The doctors explained to me that prussic acid paralyzes the lungs.[3] The effect is so sudden and so powerful that symptoms of suffocation never appear as in cases of death by coal gas or by lack of oxygen.

At the time I really didn't waste any thoughts about the killing of the Russian POWs. It was ordered; I had to carry it out. But I must admit openly that the gassings had a calming effect on me, since in the near future the mass annihilation of the Jews was to begin. Up to this point it was not clear to me, nor to Eichmann, how the killing of the expected masses was to be done. Perhaps by gas? But how, and what kind of gas? Now we had discovered the gas and the procedure. I was always horrified of death by firing squads, especially when I thought of the huge numbers of women and children who would have to be killed. I had had enough of hostage executions, and the mass killings by firing squad ordered by Himmler and Heydrich.  

footnotes:

[1.] "The gas [Cyclon B] was manufactured by the Dessauer Works for Sugar and Chemical Industry and distributed by the German Corporation for Combating Vermin [Deutsche Gesellschaft für Schaedlingsbekaempfung m.b.H.—Degesch], whose managing director was Dr. Gerhard Peters. The Cyclon-B was used for fumigating ships, army posts, and camps, as well as for the killings in Auschwitz . . . Specific quantities within the allocation of the gas were ordered by the SS Economics Administrative Main Office's Group D, located in Oranienburg and headed by SS Brigadier General Richard Gluecks." Documents of Destruction, edited by Raul Hilberg, 1971, p. 219.

Hydrocyanic acid—HCN--(prussic acid) is a highly volatile, poisonous liquid used for fumigation and for case-hardening iron and steel. It is also used in electroplating. The German Cyclon B was a mixture of this acid with diatomaceous earth creating the blue crystalline substance so often described. The containers were airtight because the crystals sublimated into gas, that is, went from their solid state to a gas upon contact with air. The rate of sublimation depended on temperature and humidity. Lower temperature and high humidity cause the process of sublimation to be considerably slowed. Water hydrolyzes the gas, since it is miscible (dissolves) in water. Therefore, a spray of water, preferably slightly acidic, would neutralize the gas. "Treatise on Inorganic Chemistry," Encyclopedia of Chemical Technology.

[2.] Death is caused by the cyanide gas combining with red blood cells, thus prohibiting them from carrying needed oxygen to the body. Victims of this gas first fall unconscious due to lack of oxygen. As the body struggles to save the vital organs, it cuts off the blood flow to the extremities, attempting to bring the oxygen-full blood to the heart, brain, and other vital organs. If the victim is not removed or given the amio nitrate antidote, he will die of oxygen starvation. This explains the many descriptions of the Sonderkommando, who worked pulling out bodies from the gas chambers. They reported that the victims' lips, fingers, toes, and even ears were purple or dark blue. The gas is noticeable in the air by a bitter almond smell; some have described it as a peach pit smell. Two hundred to five hundred parts per million of air for thirty minutes is usually fatal. Interview with Craig Skaggs, Dupont Chemical Company, Wilmington, Delaware.
[3.] Hoess and the doctors are incorrect. See footnote 2.

[4.] The infamous Einsatzgruppe (special action squads) was a contingent of the SS who followed behind the Wehrmacht (regular German army) and arrested Communist Party members, those connected with the Soviet government (politruks) and Jews. These were usually marched to a wooded area, machine-gunned to death, then buried in shallow mass graves. If the number was small, they would be shot in town and their bodies left.

[Momus--]

Originally posted by Yeager
Im sure most in the arab world are celebrating the 60th anniversary and hopeful for a second run at it.

Anti-semitism was an almost unknown phenomenon in the Arab world until the US and Europe opened the zionist floodgates in Palestine. Up until then, it had been almost exclusively confined to so-called Christian nations. If the Arabs are indeed hoping for a second run, we have to ask ourselves what caused their centuries-old attitude to change.

[straffo]

Originally posted by beet1e
I think straffo was surprised that more people didn't mention it on this board. Obviously it's going to get TV coverage everywhere.

Right.

Straffo - good job the Auschwitz Liberation did not occur on the 11th September, otherwise we would be forbidden from mentioning it or any of the commemorative ceremonies. I remember what happened last time. [/B]

Whats it really necessary to post this ?
Je pense que c'est jeter unitilement de l'huile sur le feu

Originally posted by Wotan
It was best left of the board all together. You can see by the replies that every little Ami natiionalist won't take time to remember the dead but will use the opportunity to 'Euro bash'

Straffo you should know better by now.

Sadly I think you are right

I was more thinking of the dead than providing a reason for a bash fight  ...
Such kind of fight IMO is just throwing mud on the memory of the fallen.

Thank for the link I think I'll learn a lot  on the Axis BBS., not that I'm ignorant but any way to learn and remember is good for me.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Wotan
You can see by the replies that every little Ami natiionalist won't take time to remember the dead but will use the opportunity to 'Euro bash'

That would not be a 'Ami bash' would it?

As for observing anniversaries, while I do not forget the shoah, I would rather observe Mozart's 249th.  I have better dreams.

[Angus]

Hey, guys, did anyone of you go there?
I was there,-  It is cchilling experience.
The size of the camp in Birkenau is just whooping, - it's like a small town, and it was crammed to the full.
Worth the visit definately.