cannons, Guns or both

[terracota]

Hello everybody , I have a dumb question :-)when you guys are at firing range you fire your guns? cannos? or both? at the same time? , are cannos better to close range targets and hard targets like bommers? , or you just fire with all your guns to everything,.
what is the optimal range to fire rockets?
can somebody explainme the diferences and uses for both (cannons and guns)

thank's

[Dingy]

Fire em all.  Means more lead in the air and higher pctg of kills.  

-Ding

[Soda]

I have to agree until such time as you get your gunnery skills improved.  To start out you want to get as much lead in the air as possible.  When you improve you will want to limit what you shoot more.  The ballistic patterns for 20mm vs .303 (as on the Spit V) are quite different so shooting both at the same time rarely allows both to hit.  Only when you are really close (within 150ish) are you going to be able to use both in that case and get hits.

caveat, it depends on the guns though from one plane to another.  It's really just a feeling thing you will develop.  If in doubt, fill the sky with lead..



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Soda
The Wrecking Crew

[bloom25]

I fire both when I'm within 500 yds or so.  I'll just fire MGs if I decide to shoot at longer ranges.  The reason is that cannon rounds will drop a lot, making them hard to hit with at long ranges without wasting them.

It really depends on what plane you fly too.  If you fly the 190 it's guns all have different characteristics.  If you fire all of them you will likely miss with most of you bullets until you are very close.

I think the best advise to you is to try to get in close (500 yards or less) and hit them with everything you have.  I only shoot at ranges longer than 500 yards if I want to get the enemy to turn so I can catch him.  To do this I'll just use machine guns to avoid wasting cannon rounds.

 

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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[StSanta]

I use MG's for long range shots (above 500) and all for medium to short range shots (300 and below).

Of course, with American laserbeam weapons   you can shoot and kill from much further.

Shooting down enemies with just MG's in the 109 takes a lot of hits, so get close and open up with everything is my advice

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StSanta
II/JG2

[funked]

If it's a close range shot, 400 yards or less, I let them have it with everything.

For longer shots I will use the MG only unless I am desperate to kill him or confident of a hit.

[LLv34_Camouflage]

I fly the 109 G-2 only, usually with the extra gondolas.  I shoot with the cannons only and I only use the 7.9mm mg's when I'm out of cannon.

The mg's are almost useless and only spoil my aim, therefore I don't use them.

Camo

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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
 www.muodos.fi/LLv34

Brewster into AH!

"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."

[flakbait]

Ahh, yes. The infamous debate about "Whattaya fire first?". Depends on how good a shot you are. If you're used to firing at long range with cannons you can usually hit the target from a long way off. My personal preference is to get in close, then volley off everything and kill him quick.

If the target is running faster than I am I'll just play alt-monkey and get above him. By the time I'm set-up, he'll be bleeding all his speed in a zoom climb and I'll end up firing at a stationary target. It works great, provided your target is an idiot. If he's got brains I'll hold my alt and wait until get gets in below me, flying in behind me. Once he's there, I'll push the nose over and dive down on him. If I can get in close I'll shoot everything, if not I'll just fire a light cannon burst and pray I can hit him.

If you get hits from a long distance, he'll either have some damage or you'll get lucky and PK him. If not wait until you're practically on top of him and start a lazy pull-out. Once your bull's eye touches his nose cut loose with everything. If you're short you'll blow the crap out of his tail and cockpit. If you shot long his engine will eat a lot of lead.


Flakbait
A man standing in the shadows of giants

[StSanta]

I'm somewhat surprised that so many consider 400 yards close. To me 400 yards is a little above long medium, unless you're at the bandit's dead six and he is not maneuvering.

Maybe it has something to do with the aircraft we fly and the guns on it? 109G10 myself. What about the rest of you?



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StSanta
II/JG2

[Kirin]

Hmm... 400 is at the edge of firing distance for me. In the 109 you don't have much ammo to waste and you want to get the most out of it.

I usually fire all <300 - I use MG for long range shots (around 500-600) to distract enemy or to pray for a lucky kill. Recently I started to use MG to kill when I am outta cannon - works relatively fine if you can fix your enemy in the sights.

Thinking of firing cannon only now because of disparity in balistic characteristics: e.g. if you fire at medium range and see hits they  be prolly only MG hitting while the precious cannon shells miss. This is very important when flying with 30mm since you only got 60 shells with awful drop and low rate of fire... have to test it with 20mm too - will report if it's any good. And of course you will still have full MG left when running outta cannon shells...

Of course 'alpha strike' always good when coming at high speed at a slow moving target or when attacking buffs...

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~Kirin~
   
JG2 "Richthofen"

"Ich bin immer nur die Messerschmitt 109 geflogen, aller Varianten angefangen von der G-6 bis hin zur K-14. Die Gustav war weitaus kraftvoller als die Friedrich, und hinzu kam die weitaus schwerere Bewaffnung. Die G-10 zum Beispiel hatte eine 30 mm Kanone mit absolut zerstörerirscher Wirkung. Sie war auch die schnellste aller G-Serien, mit einer exzellenten Steigrate, und war in sämtlichen Flugbereichen ausgezeichnet zu fliegen. Ich fühlte mich in meiner 'Beule' immer zuhause und Herr über alle Situationen."
Hauptmann Erich Hartmann, Gruppenkommandeur, I./JG 52, Russische Front, 1945

[This message has been edited by Kirin (edited 06-07-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Kirin (edited 06-07-2000).]

[Dead Man Flying]

 

Originally posted by StSanta:
I'm somewhat surprised that so many consider 400 yards close. To me 400 yards is a little above long medium, unless you're at the bandit's dead six and he is not maneuvering.

I agree.  I consider 400 somewhat of a "long" shot.  Definitely hittable, don't get me wrong, but it's far from optimal.  I'll typically tap machine guns to get a sense of lead at this distance, and then let them have it when I find it.  If the enemy is 300 or under, it's full guns the whole way.

-- Todd/DMF

[terracota]

so what about rockets optimal range? 300 or less? I ask this because rockets are more used to shoot ground targets so if you get so close , and a gret air speed you don't have the room to climb out , so what's the best distance to fire them?

[jscharpf]

ahh..
Things are becoming clearer, lol.
I always wondered why if I zoomed in on a buff with an 190 and fired everything for a second or two when I was almost on top of him i would rip a wing off, and at other times, I'd be firing like crazy watching sparks fly from 500 to 700 and it seemed like nothing happened. Maybe cause my cannon were all dropping low???

[Soda]

Yep, cannon rounds will drop more, it's very noticable on planes with .50's and 20mm.  I notice it on the Spit9, for instance.  The 50's have a totally different ballistic path than the 20mm.  You'll be hitting with one, but not the other after about 400.  The thing is, you want to make sure you hit with the 20mm as they are far more effective.  Don't fire the .50's unless you are doing some ranging or trying to scare the other guy.

Always remember that the 20mm will be your best weapons for doing damage, the rest are supporting guns.  In a way, the primary and secondary armament are backwards, and you should try and think of it that way.

I consider close as within 175, too close as within 75 and too far as 600.  I almost never fire at anything outside of 600 unless it is flat and level and trying to run.  I'll always try and hold fire until I'm within 300.. but that's just me.


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Soda
The Wrecking Crew