Author Topic: I'm unusually proud to be an American today...  (Read 5334 times)

Offline Dago

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I'm unusually proud to be an American today...
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2005, 11:25:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by ramzey
"free" elections, with over 100k foregin troops inside country?
are you kidding me?
i saw happy american iraqui voting in air force base  in US, you name that free elections? why foregin citizens vote for iraq?


I guess poor ramzey is not familar with the term "absentee ballot", nor the word "expatriate".

US citizens who live and work in foreign lands still are allowed to vote in US elections.  I strongly suspect that is true of most democratic countries.  Why should that be differant in the Iraq election?

Just because an Iraqi citizen is living and working in a foreign country, should he be denied the right to vote in his own countries election?  It is very possible he will choose to return to his own country some day, why shouldn't he be able to vote as every other citizen?

dago
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline JB88

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I'm unusually proud to be an American today...
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2005, 11:25:14 AM »
we are not the first nation builders.

most major european countries have had a long history of it with pretty disasterous results in many cases.

they called it colonialization.  typically they had to get kicked out.  (didnt we do that?)

whether or not that is what this is....i dont know...but history is always cause for concern.

what our distinguished friend stated was not insane nor was it unbased in reality.

it is a legitimate perspective.  IMHO.

even though i may not agree with it, i find it interesting.
this thread is doomed.
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word.

Offline LePaul

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« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2005, 11:32:12 AM »
Wow Ramzey.  

:rolleyes:

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2005, 11:35:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
we are not the first nation builders.

most major european countries have had a long history of it with pretty disasterous results in many cases.

they called it colonialization.  typically they had to get kicked out.  (didnt we do that?)

whether or not that is what this is....i dont know...but history is always cause for concern.

what our distinguished friend stated was not insane nor was it unbased in reality.

it is a legitimate perspective.  IMHO.

even though i may not agree with it, i find it interesting.


Colonization is not the same as nation building.

Offline JB88

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« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2005, 11:39:11 AM »
technically it is not.  you are correct.

nation building does hold a modern form of colonialism at its core however.
this thread is doomed.
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To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2005, 11:51:47 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
technically it is not.  you are correct.

nation building does hold a modern form of colonialism at its core however.


Explain that.  How so?

Offline Rino

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« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2005, 12:42:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
Explain that.  How so?


     Cause if the Iraqis choose anything that might help US
interests, we are automatically colonizing them, apparently.

     Makes no difference if the Iraqis decided to do it on their own,
because we all know they are just little children without minds
of their own.

     How some people can be arrogant enough to think that
absolutely baffles me.
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Offline Martlet

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« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2005, 12:44:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rino
Cause if the Iraqis choose anything that might help US
interests, we are automatically colonizing them, apparently.

     Makes no difference if the Iraqis decided to do it on their own,
because we all know they are just little children without minds
of their own.

     How some people can be arrogant enough to think that
absolutely baffles me.


Actually, no.  That's nation building, not colonization.

Offline beet1e

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Re: Re: Re: I'm unusually proud to be an American today...
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2005, 12:48:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jackal1
The WMD thingy has been run completely in the ground. It nears the point of hilarity to me every time this is brought up. The WMDs were and probably some still are. Like was stated they have been used by this country before.
  You think the chemical warhead containers were for the purpose of delivering candy, pinata style to the kids? Geez.
  What about the "Big Gun" laucher that was disasembled? It wasn`t for a huge fireworks display as a present for  surrounding countries.[/SIZE]
It makes me laugh to hear the entire justification for a war with an initial cost of some $180bn, and more than 1000 American lives lost, reclassified as the "WMD thingy". :lol

Chemical warhead containers? You could also have mentioned the centrifuges he wanted for producing weapons grade plutonium. You could have mentioned the nerve gases such as sarin and tabun, which are easy to make and are composed of several chemicals each of which is harmless in isolation, and how Saddam tried to buy these harmless chemicals from different sources. Yes, I know about the Iraqi supergun, part of which came from Britain. These are all reasons why I would have preferred W's dad to have finished the job in 1991. Had the job been finished then, I think there would have been a much greater chance of finding WMD. But... 12 years went by, during which time the issue was arguably neglected by Clinton. IIRC, W declared his intent to invade Iraq on 12th September 2001. But hostilities did not begin till early 2003, partly owing to the UN and prevarication. Who knows what happened to Saddam's arsenal in that time?

Sorry if it sounds like a jab, but it simply isn't good enough to dismiss the entire justification for going to war as an irrelevance, or as a "thingy" that has run aground, only then to try to invent other reasons for going to war, after the fact. The whole debacle has played into the anti-war crusaders' hands, so that next time a crisis or threat to our security arises, mobilisation of our military forces to address that threat is a notion that is going to be much more difficult to sell to the public. If such a crisis were to arise in an election campaign year, well, I'll leave you to figure it out. :aok

Of course Iraq is better off without Saddam, with all that entails. But toppling Saddam's regime, and establishing democracy/elections in Iraq - good though this has been -  was NOT the official justification for going to war in the first place.

Offline rabbidrabbit

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« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2005, 12:51:14 PM »
Way to keep hijacking the thread Beetle.  What a hero!

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2005, 01:11:56 PM »
No matter what I felt about Iraq before yesterday, I am convinced that it is a place where Americans should be for two reasons:

1) There were a majority of Iraqi people who passed through fear and intimidation to cast votes.

2) There were brutal murderous people who commited suicide to kill Iraqis standing in line to cast votes.

Iraq is exactly the place Americans should be, helping Iraqis as they cast votes for their own deliverance from tryanny.

Before yesterday I was worried and troubled as much by the misguided people in free countries opposed to the sacrifice needed to free Iraq from tyranny as I was by the murderous thugs who are trying to keep Iraq in the dark ages.

Today I feel especially justified in my commitment to those people in Iraq who cast votes yesterday, and throughout the free world these past three days.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2005, 01:34:49 PM »
I have to agree with Ramzey, this so-called "elections" backed by occupants bayonets are a sick joke.

At least when all Iraqi people elected Saddam - there were foreign observers, who proved that elections were not faked. Listening to the news today I literally start to laugh at silly attempts to justify a criminal occupation of independant country.

Ramzey, they have used this trick in late-40s all over the world. At that time it was used to divide European nations and Korea to secure their control over "blue" occupation zones, that led to increasing Soviet control in "red" occupation zones and countries like Poland.

Now this "democratic" elections are an apotheosis of political hypocrisy, using so-called "democracy" in it's irrational Western form as an excuse to legalizing an occupation and installing a puppet pro-occupant Kwisling regime, supported by foreign bayonets.

Sorry. You know, I am against democracy in it's religious form, when it is turned into some strange kind of blind faith. I try to be rational.

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2005, 01:38:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
I have to agree with Ramzey,


Of course you do.  You didn't even have to post for me to realize that.

Keep mourning the death of your failed nation.

Offline Dago

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I'm unusually proud to be an American today...
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2005, 01:40:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Way to keep hijacking the thread Beetle.  What a hero!


"hero" wasnt the word I would have used.

dago
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline Dago

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« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2005, 01:43:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
I have to agree with Ramzey, this so-called "elections" backed by occupants bayonets are a sick joke.

 


God, you are a sad freaking idiot aren't you?  Or are we all just suckered in by a troll?  After all, I have to wonder if anyone is really as stupidly f'ed up as you.

Were those guys dancing in the street doing so at a bayonets point?  I don't think so.  The smiles are kinda hard to fake.

dago
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"