Federal Judge rules about Gitmo

[Cobra412]

Patrone if your going to troll atleast have something worthwhile to post in regards to the subject.   It would have to be something new instead of your typical "fake videos and conspiracy theories" you always seem to spew out towards the US and anything slightly involving the US.  

In no way shape or form would anyone that is involved with the coalition get a fair trial from the insurgents.  They would be lucky to survive through the night.  

People scream about fairness and following the rules of LOAC but when was the last time the insurgents followed any of these rules?  These insurgents are using civilians and protected buildings to wage their war.  They wear no uniform so why should the coalition have to follow the rules governed by LOAC and the Geneva convention?  Insurgents are killing their own people on a daily basis without any remorse.  They are killing women, children and innocent bystanders.

It's amazing how they cry for their rights yet many of those who were released once before were picked up again and participating during the fighting.  It wouldn't surprise me if these so called insurgents aren't many of the men from the previous Iraqi army.  We can let them go.  The next time they are picked up for being part of the fighting then they can be executed on the spot.

[wombatt]

LOL I love it when people who are not even from America tell us about our Constitution

[patrone]

Cobra, I didnt bring beheading up, sorry. There is people who has somekind of pervesion to always bring this up. I just answer them as stupid as I can.

But, I have to say, that I have my doubts about this "Zarquawi" guy. Sorry. Its just me and what I belive.

Further more, I dont see that one breaking a rule would make it ok for all to do the same. If they are terrorists, they will not expect mercy, neither will they give.

I am with the guy that said about Gitmo prisoners, convict them and shoot them if they are guilty. But, follow the procedure that is granted them in the Geneva convention.

And Wombatt, I was just defending my "headline" and my mention of the constitution. The law that this case applies with is really the "Geneva convention".

But as a FD Marine, I am sure you heard of it?

[Cobra412]

Anyone can say they have their doubts about a particular person.  You could easily say you have your doubts about Bin Laden too.  They could all just be plants by the CIA and FBI so the US can gain control of some of the largest oils fields in the world.

These plants would give the US justification for strong arming the countries with massive oil fields.  Our sole reason for going in would be to show these "plants" as major threats to world peace and we are only there to get them.  Is that a good enough conspiracy theory?  I'm sure I could write a book off of a conspiracy theory like this and people would believe it.  

I'm curious though if these "plants" are fake then are we saying the majority of his/her followers are sheep without a brain?  Is it that easy to plant a CIA agent and have him scream jihad and they will follow?

[patrone]

Originally posted by Cobra412

I'm curious though if these "plants" are fake then are we saying the majority of his/her followers are sheep without a brain?  Is it that easy to plant a CIA agent and have him scream jihad and they will follow?

Sorry for not quoting all of your post. I dont deny Bin laden and his doings. I doubt however that he is still alive. Thats not a issue. I also belive that there is s network call al quiada and that they where behind the 911, no doubts at all.

It is not ok for me that USA invade any country on the very loose fundations they had for Iraq. It is against International law: This is my claim, Time will tell who was right. You might think the opposite.

That Both USA and Soviet have a "history" of making changes of Regimes in other countries, I hope I dont have to mention another 911, staged by USA ? They have been caught redhanded 2 times doing it and convicted for it by international law of court 1 time (Nicaragua).  1 case is yet to come up (Venezuela). If CIA can do this and have been proven by courts doing it, why should I not doubt what they can do to "win" the US-people on their side?

I have not even touched Vietnam and will not. This war ended because the American people protest against the killings and for their soldiers being killed for what? Cause a false attack on a destroyer?

A full war like this (Iraq), can only be conducted with the support of the US people. The only way to give support is to have a real horrible enemy, someone that cuts heads off, so on, so on.

Then again, I might be totaly wrong and then I will apologize for it, I promise.

EDIT .And, in my phonebook under the chapter "if the war should come" given to all households in Sweden, it say "Every message that says that the goverment has capitulated is false, be ware the enemy might controll radio press and television. The struggle goes on. Join the Gerilla movement".
But it might just be for show.
Never the less, if my country was invaded I would fight with all means against who ever it was, trying to conduct it. But then again, Iraqis are not allowed to?

And thank you for a very intellegent post Cobra

[Cobra412]

I don't doubt for one second that the US has done some shady business in the past to fit their ideals.  I also don't doubt that many other countries have done so also but not on such a large scale as ones we may have done.  It's easy to cover up internal scandals that are illegal and are only being done to in order to fit your ideals.  

Difference is the eyes of the world are always watching over the major countries.  These things that happen that are caught make world wide news in a flash.  Take similiar scenarios and apply them to smaller countries and how often do such things make headline news across the world?  This is alot like how people across the world view well known people in the music or acting community.  Something they do that seems minor and happens constantly in most peoples lives gets blown up to something major and makes news all over the world.

Simple fact is every country has alot of secrets that could very well be considered as illegal in the International courts.  To flat out plant an agent in a scenario like Iraq is just silly.  If it were that easy and people could be fooled all over by it then just kill the current ruler and put in your own look alike.  Or do another massive attack like 9/11 and get the world back in your corner by proving just how terrible these bad guys are.  If they wanted to prove WMD existed in Iraq then they could have been easily been planted by covert units and then the world would have been fooled yet again.  We can go on and on about what is real and what is being made up by someone to fit their ideals or goals.  We could question every last event in the worlds history and ask ourselves is this true or just fake.  The conspiracy theories would be a dime dozen.  We'd all be running around screaming the sky is falling everytime something drops from the sky that someone out there just can't comprehend.

Easiest way the US could have gained support would have been to plant those WMD covertly and have the inspectors or teams afterwards find them.  That's alot of desert out there and very few people that could detect a covert team planting the evidence that everyone is so willing to stand behind if it's found.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
captured US servicmen??????

are you high?  Any US servicemen captured now by insurgents wont get rights, trial, or even fair treatment.  IIRC not one captured US servicement caught after end of major operations has survived.

I didnt say they would get rights. I said we were asking for own our to be treated like this when we treat others that way.  Also that is why we are supposed to be better than the insurgents. We dont stoop to their level. We value human life.

[Cobra412]

I don't doubt a good amount of the people now fighting in Iraq are truly recent volunteers or recruits.  I also don't doubt for one minute though that the tactics currently being could infact be a mixture of volunteers, terrorist groups and old Iraqi military personnel.  It wouldn't suprise me also if the Iraqi military purposely (ordered)fell into the civilian population and combined with these groups to fight a war much like Somalia or Vietnam.  

This way no group as a whole can be charged for major war crimes.  Only those caught in the act or those that are in charge and giving the orders.  This would relieve people like SH from being brought up on charges for things such as the civilians being killed everyday there.  His country never followed the rules of the Geneva convention or LOAC to start with.  By basically making it the civilian people fighting his war instead of his army then the atrocities that are being committed will be hard to pin point on any one person or group and he isn't guilty of anything since the start of the war without any hard proof of WMD or ties to terroist groups.  Basically he'd have initially ordered these commands and then cleaned his hands afterwards in hopes the US would fold and he could then regain power in the end.  

I think one issue is though that some groups are making this a war based on religion.  Sunnis are now waging war against Shiites because of their religion and stance on making Iraq a difference place.  It's easy to scream jihad and have people come out in the thousands.  Problem is that many coalition forces may believe in God but that isn't why they are there.  It's not a holy war.  Religion is not what we base our battle cry off of.  

I for one don't have any religious faith and why I'm there is not for oil.  I'm there to give these people a chance to have the same rights that I have myself if they want them.  Those rights can only become reality if they want them in the first place.  If the current media isn't blowing smoke up the worlds arses about the elections then I'd say they want to be free and have the same rights that so many other people around the world have.  What is happening now is no different than how many of us gained our same rights and freedom.  It came through sacrifice and the loss of alot of people on both sides of the fence.  In the end though countries which have gone through similiar phases to get where they are now are alot better off that it happenend.  It comes back to that whole saying freedom doesn't come free.

[Lizking]

Yo Skippy, they just kill our service men, they don't give a **** what we do to theirs.  If we gave the detainees 70 virgins, a herd of goats and a tent, do you think they would treat our guys any better?

Some people have no clue, nor even a clue that they HAVE no clue.

[patrone]

Cobra.

I see your point and I do agree to a point. When I was a kid, I belived anything they said on the television, cause it was "offical" and you couldīnt just write BS in the newspaper, you would end up in troubles with the law, cause people would sue you until you where ruined or you loose reader cause you where not trustworthy.

Now, its diffrent, its junk and news about citcoms are more important than the "real" news and no one askes questions. We are more and less put to sleep by media, making us dumb. deaf and blind to anything else that dosīnt emediatly effect us or someone we know.

And really, would we have screamed and been giving that much to the Tsunami victims, if there wasīnt a lot of "westeners" involved? Would it still have the same newsvalue, no matter how big the figures where? I doubt it.

And everything has a "twist" because there are no independent Tv or newspapers left out there. Journalists are not respected by neither sides in a conflict. They can not report what they "see" only what they are officialy told.

So, the bright ones question things, the sheeps just follow the official version and opens another beer to wait for the next game of football or citcom.

Sometimes, the light goes out for the bright ones and it becomes all darkness and the "conspiracy" is created. Urban legends, cause we dont belive in ghost stories in this modern times.

And its true, all countrys has their "secret ops" and skelettons in the wardrobe. Some has a lot, some has less.

But to see a Great country as the USA, resort into stoneage cause they wont comply with the coming changes of energy sources, is very tradgic. You rather kill and get your people killed for the sake of one product: The car=freedom?
And couldīnt it run on electricity?

[patrone]

Originally posted by Lizking
Yo Skippy, they just kill our service men, they don't give a **** what we do to theirs.  If we gave the detainees 70 virgins, a herd of goats and a tent, do you think they would treat our guys any better?

Some people have no clue, nor even a clue that they HAVE no clue.

Ofcourse they kill your service men, you invaded their country and you are still at war, no matter if your president claimed "Major ops" has ended. Talk about clues........

[JB88]

lll have to dig up the article, but there was a declassified plan that came out for the overthrow of castro by using a staged terrorist attack as an excuse to invade cuba.

unfortunately, we have discovered over time and through the freedom of information act that our government has run a whole lot of reallly bad ideas through its head and has actually done some of them.

things like spreading infection publicly to see how it spreads etc.  which they did.

creating carnivore and running it for years against the rule of law and our basic right to privacy...or subcontracting other countries to spy on our citizens for us.

these are true occurrences.

etc.

the problem with that...?

im not saying that 9/11 was a fraud.  i AM saying that with the mindset that government gets in to... its not totally unbelievable.

not totally.

its like saying, im looking for a murderer...and heres this guy drawing a map of how to stab people with a full list of details, and a motive.

so long as there are idiots coming up with "gay bombs" (true story)  i am willing to entertain pretty much anything.

i dont think 9/11 was that.

but some things just ARE.

[TalonX]

I can't stand animals, such as the terrorists, depending on the rights, freedoms, and culture of the Americans to defend them.

It's somehow like a criminal using the legal system to sue the prison system.

[patrone]

Originally posted by TalonX
I can't stand animals, such as the terrorists, depending on the rights, freedoms, and culture of the Americans to defend them.

It's somehow like a criminal using the legal system to sue the prison system.

I am agreeing totaly TalonX, but first, they have to be proven to be terrorists. You seriuosly belive a 13 year old kid should be held for years and years without having his case tested? And if they all where terrorists, how come some where released?

Either you are a prisoner of war or you are a civilian, there are diffrent laws applying to both parts. If you are a civilian, You have a right to a trail. If you are a prisoner of war, you will be released within a timelimit from when the war stoped.

And If you are proven to be a terrorist,,, well,,, youīr in trouble.

[Cobra412]

Patrone the big picture for those in the government offices may in fact be oil.  For those men and women on the ground in that country it's the last thing on their minds.  They are there to help the Iraqi people get the same rights and freedom that we have ourselves.  I can tell you without a doubt the vast majority of the American military isn't fighting for religion or oil.  

No one knows for sure when the oil will dry up especially the average person around the world.  Time will pass and much like everything else in the world it will be here one day and gone the next.  Alternative energy sources will still be needed it's just a matter of when.  Conversions for current vehicles using gas are already in the works.  When the oil is gone people will adapt and move on just as they did before the invention of the gasoline engine.  Next thing you know people will make claims that some country is trying to take over the worlds major suppliers of that commodity too.  I'm sure major countries could easily make the transition over to alternative devices and force the oil prices higher if they chose to.  Then those countries that controlled such commodities would cry that these countries are forcing the market up through their actions thus hurting the worlds economy in some way shape or form.  It's a vicious cycle that will never end so long as humans are left here on earth.