HTC's Fw-190s vs the "ideal" 190s

[Karnak]

JB73,

My take on it is that there are certain things that are overmodeled on the SpitV in AH.  Another thing is the +16lbs boost which may not be an overmodel, but it is odd that HTC did that.  It rendered the Spitfire F.Mk IX moot.

The greater SA, brought on largely by the glaring icons, also gives an advantage to aircraft, such as the Spitfire Mk V,  that can break turn effectively.  That makes getting shots much harder than I think it really was and makes muzzle velocity a more important factor of a gun that it really was.

[Glasses]

Kurt Tank,as all threads about the 190 should end just,simply Kurt a Tank .

[Kweassa]

That's interesting Karnak.

 Care to share with us what you specificaly think the SpitV is overmodelled in? Just curious.

[Urchin]

Originally posted by JB73
crump... the trick, or question at hand is the "realistic" model VS the HTC model.


the fact is the 190A5 is NO match for the sptiV in an equal engagement in the MA DA TA or CT.


*IF they were to model an A3 or an A4 how significantly better would it be than a spit V? if it was, the A5 would cease to exist for all practical matters.

in an equal engagment the best i have done ( and i am by NO means a greta pilot nor confess to be) is a D9, taking a spitV into a spiral climb, getting the spit to fall over first, but the stall of the D9 making me not be able to make the shot.

thats a D9, a far superior climber and "speedester" than the A5.

the few A5 engangment i have had have been over before i can honestly say it started. thats against a mediocre pilot i have heard of very few times in the MA as being "good".

like i said im no great pilot, but i'd like to see the best spitV pilot VS the best A5 pilot.

i'd guess leviathan is the spitV guy, not sure because it is a toss up about the 190A5 pilot, either way in an equal engagement coE and all, the 190 does not have a chance to even land a ping.

so is there something wrong, or is that realistic is the true question. i happen to personally believe that something is not correct with the 190. i by no means say te spit is "porked", heck it my be i have not research on the data. i have no real knowledge on the specifics of it, all i know is the 190A "should" be a match for it.


time will tell what the game developers do, and what is changed or not changed in the game. all i can ask politely is that HiTech and Pyro look deeper into the factors, and find the proper conclusion AND hopefully post some revelant data to show what they based their decisions on.

I'd say that the 190a5 is more than a match for the Spit 5, 1v1.  

Co-alt does not nescesarily mean co-E.  

So, even you could beat Leviathn 1v1 if you fly the a5 to its strengths instead of the Spits.  Will it be fun?  I don't know.  You tend to be more of a bore n zoomer (well, your squad, don't know you personally), so you might find it interesting.

What advantages does the a5 have over the spit 5?  Even the new "uber" super-boost spit 5?  Well, it is faster.  You've got a 25 mph margin on the Spit in top speed up to 8k or so.  From 8 to 15k it is just about even I'd say, although the a5 is probably ~5 mph faster.  

So lets say a typical "DA" style 5k merge.  5k is the ceiling, not the actual merge alt... typically at a "5k" merge both parties dive to try to get below the other guy for an advantage at the merge.  

So you take your A5, get up to 350 or so.  Coming up to the merge, you go into a shallow dive.  You aren't really trying to get below the Spit, you are trying to get above 400 mph.  The faster you can get going before you pass the Spit, the better.

At the merge, go into a very gentle pull-up.  You are now converting that extra speed/energy into altitude.  Your ideal situation is to end up at 0 mph directly over the Spit.. you'll have anywhere from 1,000 feet to 3,000+ on him, depending on how he merged.

Now you make your pass.  If you kill him great, if not you set up for another pass.  Depending on the margin of energy, you can go straight up (which is a more 'aggressive' way to fight), or just extend in a gentle climb.  Once you have a comfortable margin of distance, repeat the initial merge.  

Continue until the Spit is dead, out of fuel, or the pilot falls asleep and augers.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Urchin
I'd say that the 190a5 is more than a match for the Spit 5, 1v1.

I agree.  I've been in scenarios where the 190A5s just ate the Spit Vs for lunch.  I was on the defensive the entire time.  The Spit just did not match up in any meaningful way when the planes were flown in a "realistic" way.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Wolfala]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I agree.  I've been in scenarios where the 190A5s just ate the Spit Vs for lunch.  I was on the defensive the entire time.  The Spit just did not match up in any meaningful way when the planes were flown in a "realistic" way.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Thank YOU GOD! Finally someone admits this fact!

Wolfala

[Charge]

"I've been in scenarios where the 190A5s just ate the Spit Vs for lunch."

When? Before the increased manifold pressure?

-C+

[Naudet]

The wrong number of flap settings and deployment speeds are the worst fault of the AHs 190 model currently.

The FW190 had only three flap positions "flight" (fully retracted), "take-off" (~13° extended) and "landing" (~58° fully deployed).

The limiting speed for "landing" position is given in the aircraft manual as 300km/h (~185mph), which is roughly the speed in AH were you can deploy the 1st notch of flaps in the 190s which equalls "take-off" position in the real plane.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Charge
When? Before the increased manifold pressure?

Before.  However, the increased manifold pressure for the Spit V only comes with WEP, and WEP only lasts so long.  To be honest, I think people vastly overstate the importance of this change; it puts some of its WEP performance closer to that of the Spit IX without WEP, but the Spit IX is still a relatively slow plane overall.

I contend that even as modelled now, a "realistic" scenario pitting equally-skilled 190A5s and Spit Vs results in either a clear Luftwaffe victory or at worst a Luftwaffe-Allied draw.  

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Zwerg]

Besides the flaps I think the 190 looses too much E in turns. It never will turn like a Spit V for sure. It'll always have a huge turn radius compared to the "turn fighters". But E retention should be  better imo. Not much better. But better.
Maybe I'm completly wrong but I think in the beginning of AH2 the 190 had better E retention in turns.

mofa