Author Topic: Why aren't they accountable ..... you are (Read 1389 times)

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #45 on:** February 02, 2005, 11:43:17 AM »

Clinton wasn't being investigated for Perjury, he was being investigated for several cases of Sexual Harrassment. He committed perjury in the process.

Raider179 · « **Reply #46 on:** February 02, 2005, 12:30:22 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by patrone
Yes I have a clue, that you guys dumped like 100,000 of tons of Wmds left over from both WWI and WWII, they lay there 20 min drive away from my house, waiting to erude or for someone to "come and get" em.

A very potential threat and very easy to obtain. Talk about spreading WMDs. You have no clue about anything and you will never have.

Didnt germans invent the use of Wmds in modern warfare? mustard Gas and other stuff. By the way you got your facts screwy. Most of the mustard gas and the like got dumped into the oceans after the war. U.S./German/Britian. Anything that is in your country currently is probably from the cold war although I doubt your accuracy as to what is stockpiled where and who it belongs to.

Elfie · « **Reply #47 on:** February 02, 2005, 01:00:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by patrone
Yes I have a clue, that you guys dumped like 100,000 of tons of Wmds left over from both WWI and WWII, they lay there 20 min drive away from my house, waiting to erude or for someone to "come and get" em.

A very potential threat and very easy to obtain. Talk about spreading WMDs. You have no clue about anything and you will never have.

Care to show some proof?

Elfie · « **Reply #48 on:** February 02, 2005, 01:45:51 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Elfie
Care to show some proof?

Nevermind, I googled for it.

As usual, your facts are twisted. For one, very few of the dump sites can be verified. Most of the exact locations of the dump sites is unknown. For another, the USA dumped very little of the captured German stockpiles. Great Britain and the former Soviet Union dumped the majority of the weapons. Third, it was a common, accepted (and thought to be safe) practice to dump unwanted chemical munitions into the sea. Dumping unwanted chemical weapons into the sea was an accepted practice from the end of WWI up into the 1970's. Virtually every country that has had chemical weapons has participated in this practice.

I doubt that you could find any useful WMD's on the seafloor now. Most chemical weapons have a useful shelf life measured in years. Mustard gas in a notable exception to this in that it has a shelf life measured in decades.

From one search result: http://greennature.com/article1038.html

Scientists Debate World War II-Era Chemical Weapons Dumped In Baltic Sea

Following World War II, thousands of tons of German chemical weapons were dumped into the Baltic Sea. Today, some scientists argue that the submerged weapons pose no imminent threat. Others, however, insist that there is no way of knowing whether an ecological catastrophe is around the corner. A particular concern, they warn, is the fact that there are no records to help locate some of the dumping sites.

• Coastal Index
In 1945, the Allies seized large arsenals of chemical weapons that had belonged to the Nazis. The arsenals contained some 300,000 tons of mines, grenades, aerial bombs, and artillery shells filled with mustard gas and other poisonous compounds. Britain and the Soviet Union used the Baltic Sea as a depository for the leftover arsenals.

Vadim Paka of the Institute of Oceanography in the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad says some 35,000 tons of chemical weapons were dumped in the Baltic after World War II. The weapons were deposited in three areas -- one near Lithuania and Latvia (Gotland Deep), one near Sweden (Bornholm Deep), and one near Denmark and Germany (Little Belt). At the time, ecological concerns were minimal. Many believed the seabed was the safest place to deposit chemicals.

Raider179 · « **Reply #49 on:** February 02, 2005, 01:55:23 PM »

rgr that elfie...Info I saw said most of the containers would have eroded by now and the chemicals disapated into the oceans. Not very good for the oceans but at least no terrorists or lunatics can get a hold of them.

Elfie · « **Reply #50 on:** February 02, 2005, 02:18:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Raider179
rgr that elfie...Info I saw said most of the containers would have eroded by now and the chemicals disapated into the oceans. Not very good for the oceans but at least no terrorists or lunatics can get a hold of them.

Terrorists and lunatics (like Patrone) would need to run salvage operations in most cases. Salvage operations near the known dump sites would be easily spotted.

j/k on the lunatic thing Patrone (I couldnt resist )

patrone · « **Reply #51 on:** February 02, 2005, 02:33:26 PM »

LOL Elfie.

Fishermen will catch a couple bombs about every week. They are only reporting their catch of the bomb if it is leaking, otherwise they just dump it into the sea again.

And from the guys I know, that made actual divings into the "dumps" there is no containers, everything is just laying spread out on the bottom of the sea.

No need for a "salvage operation" to get a couple up to the surface.

One thing is what newspapers might report: One thing is reality.

Elfie · « **Reply #52 on:** February 02, 2005, 02:52:59 PM »

Depends on the dump site Patrone on whether or not the stuff is just laying there. The Soviets just dumped the munitions themselves into the sea. The British scutteled entire ships full of munitions. As far as the 32,000 tons that the US dumped, I didnt see any information on how the munitions were dumped. The British dumped over 175,000 tons which is probably why they just scutteled the ships carrying the munitions. Much easier to just sink a ship than pushing all that stuff overboard.

The hard part now would be finding munitions that 1) Are not leaking, 2) that still have viable chemicals inside them. Even mustard gas left over from WWII will not likely still be effective. You would most likely need salvage operations to find usable munitions if any still existed after sitting on the ocean floor for 60 years.

*edit* fixed a couple typos

patrone · « **Reply #53 on:** February 02, 2005, 03:10:30 PM »

My point is, that 1 bomb in the wrong hands is enough to cause damage. And that this presents a serious threat itself. And to get a couple of bombs up, you dont need a "salvageship".........

Elfie · « **Reply #54 on:** February 02, 2005, 04:14:17 PM »

I understood your point all to clearly as soon as I verified the fact that chemical munitions were routinely dumped into the sea as a means of *disposal* for close to 60 years.

Patrone the hard part isnt just bringing one or two bombs to the surface. It's finding one intact, (not leaking) AND with chemicals inside that are still functional. Best chance for a chemical that is still functional is mustard gas. While mustard gas can cause death, it has a pretty low death rate and probably wouldnt be used by terrorists. Sarin or VX gas is the most likely choice of terrorists since those two gases would cause widespread death.

I think the best chances of finding usable munitions would be on the ships the Brits sunk. The ships themselves will help protect the munitions. Finding the individual ships will prove to be a chore as well since no records were kept of the dump sites.

Elfie · « **Reply #55 on:** February 02, 2005, 04:15:49 PM »

Oh yeah, dont worry about any VX gas being found offshore from your home, it wasnt invented until much later.

Raider179 · « **Reply #56 on:** February 02, 2005, 05:19:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by patrone
My point is, that 1 bomb in the wrong hands is enough to cause damage. And that this presents a serious threat itself. And to get a couple of bombs up, you dont need a "salvageship".........

Sorry patrone everything I have seen says mustard only stays viable for a few decades. When was WW2 over? 60 years ago. That is more than a few. Yes if they were kept in optimum storage facilites they might still have some potency. But you can forget that stuff on the bottum its junk.