Author Topic: Go ahead Russia, no one will blame you (Read 6471 times)

Fariz · « **Reply #345 on:** February 10, 2005, 03:12:56 AM »

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Originally posted by ATA
I was 11 you peace of crap.
My name is Alex Atalian,cristian or not i'm still armenian and 'couse of people like you i'm scared to go back.
Azeris left azerbayjan?
Smart people did,Azeris,russians,armenians.

No, I say about Azeries, who are refuges on their own land. Who can't go home because you guys ocupy 25% of the country, and that including lot of territory outside Nagorny Karabakh which you initially clamed.

What you put above another great example of nationalistic bs propoganda crap. I can dig MBs of it from the other side, saying things opposite to what yours say. But what for? To prove that history can be twisted any way which people want? Thanks god, I have my own eyes and ears, and I judge things my my own experience.

My family had and has a lot of friends among the armenians. That was a nature of Baku, no one even asked what nationality you are, because no one cared. During the war and clensings many Azeri families helped Armenians to run away, gave them shelter and provided with what they needed.

My utmost believe is that civilians shall not be under threat, and woman and children shall not die because of some nationalistic brainwashed idiots.

Staga · « **Reply #346 on:** February 10, 2005, 04:19:43 AM »

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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
So I proved your point against use of nuclerar weapons to end WW2 by stating that they saved many lives on both sides?

You are an odd fellow indeed...

I think he's much of things but I'm pretty sure he's not a Odd Fellow...

Boroda · « **Reply #347 on:** February 10, 2005, 08:55:31 AM »

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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Well as I recall the regiment retreated with only 20% of it's manpower left so it was quite a significant event. It was damn near abolished..

You would normally think the event history would at least mention something like that.

Must be Guards Cavalry Regiment, at the battle of Austerlitz, 1805. Their suicide attack saved the remnants of Russian/Austiran army... Only 18 (eighteen) men left from the whole regiment.

Strange that this glorious fight was unmentioned. IIRC it was their first fight ever.

ATA · « **Reply #348 on:** February 10, 2005, 09:49:30 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fariz

My utmost believe is that civilians shall not be under threat, and woman and children shall not die because of some nationalistic brainwashed idiots.

True.
My apologies

Boroda · « **Reply #349 on:** February 10, 2005, 10:03:51 AM »

Fariz, ATA, I think that all the bad things between Armenians and Azeri people ave to be solved peacefully.

One thing makes me wonder - what inspired the conflict in late-80s? Evil Communist Empire? Frankly speaking I doubt it.

Gorby is responsible for escalation of conflict, but I suspect that the problems were provoked by forces interested in breaking USSR apart

Just one question, what do you think, was it good or bad that USSR broke into independant republics? I'll appreciate any answer.

BTW, I was really surprised when someone (sorry forgot his nickname) blamed Russia for genocide of Armenians in 1915, because Russians "didn't help their Christian brothers". I am really glad to see that Russian Empire is seen as some kind of allmighty power, but sorry, it wasn't so

Peace!

ATA · « **Reply #350 on:** February 10, 2005, 10:24:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda

One thing makes me wonder - what inspired the conflict in late-80s? Evil Communist Empire? Frankly speaking I doubt it.

Gorby is responsible for escalation of conflict, but I suspect that the problems were provoked by forces interested in breaking USSR apart

Just one question, what do you think, was it good or bad that USSR broke into independant republics? I'll appreciate any answer.

BTW, I was really surprised when someone (sorry forgot his nickname) blamed Russia for genocide of Armenians in 1915, because Russians "didn't help their Christian brothers". I am really glad to see that Russian Empire is seen as some kind of allmighty power, but sorry, it wasn't so

Peace!

Who started conflict?
Idiots will shi@ where they eat.
Somebody made a lotta money,somebody from top i guess started it.
Same in chechnia,i've seen russians unloading one side of suply train and chechnians another.

Boroda · « **Reply #351 on:** February 10, 2005, 12:17:54 PM »

I'll better say - "national elites" crazy for power. Russian brass-hats were no better then others - I insist on it.

As for Russia supporting Chechens - Yeltsin's gang thought they'll use Chechen gangs as a "sword of Damocles" over Caucasus, they fought on Abkhazian side in a war with Georgia, but - you rip what you sow, and controlling that prehistoric tribes armed by Russia was impossible

Boroda · « **Reply #352 on:** February 10, 2005, 12:23:09 PM »

Êâàêà-çàäàâàêà (Kvaka-zadavaka) AKA Toad the Strutter:

I really enjoyed that cartoon when I was a kid

Loved the song. "À ìíåå ëþáîîîå ìîðå ïî êîëåíî! À ìíååå ëþáûûå ãîðû ïî ïëå÷î!"

Boroda · « **Reply #353 on:** February 10, 2005, 12:42:58 PM »

Toad posted:

Such an event occurred July 1, 1960, when an RB-47H from the 55th Strategic Reconnaissance Wing was on a standard electronic reconnaissance mission over the Barents Sea, probing the Soviet radar system. On board was the standard three-man B-47 crew plus three electronic warfare officers.

The RB-47 was outside of Soviet airspace when cannon fire from a MiG-19 interceptor smashed into its wing and engines, sending it into a flat spin. The crew ejected, but the only survivors were the copilot, 1st Lt. Freeman Bruce Olmstead, and navigator, 1st Lt. John McKone. They were captured, incarcerated in the Lubyanka prison in Moscow, and released after being confined for several months.

So, you say they were shot down "outside Soviet airspace", over the Bartnts Sea.

How long did it take Soviet side to rescue them? Do you know how long can a man survive in Barents Sea? Maybe the answer is simply and they were shot down over Soviet land?...

Later your masters took special measures against such accidents. Gary Powers, shot down in his U-2 recon plane, survived only because he didn't use an ejection seat: there was an explosive charge attached to ejection handle...

US recon planes violated Soviet airspace every week during Cold War. American aerial pirates even attacked Soviet ground objects, like in 1950 they attacked Sukhaya Rechka airfield near Vladivostok, in weather conditions that made a navigation error impossible.

Can you imagine Soviet planes deliberately bombing American military airfield?..

SaburoS · « **Reply #354 on:** February 10, 2005, 01:15:52 PM »

We had bomber flights that penetrated the Soviet Union under Operation Norwood specifically meant to seek out weaknesses in the airdefensive radar network. Unfortunately we lost some good men as they were pretty much defenseless once caught. This was during the Eisenhower administration. IIRC

AirWÃ¶lf · « **Reply #355 on:** February 10, 2005, 01:40:55 PM »

Well, the Taliban Simply defeated Russia. Russia gave up because of the money it costed and the losses it had. Russia wasn't gaining anything in Afghanistan. Besides, we were helping the Taliban at the time so Russia had no chance. I would also like to know, If Russia is so great and their technology is so good, what happened to all the USSR's submarines in the past? Like Kursk, and the many other ships that are now lying at the bottom o the sea due to countless errors. Russia soesn't overly check their equiipment before use like to US does. Our tech is reliable. How about Russia? Oh and might I add. Does Russia still have many "Ass-tronauts" i mean Astronauts floating around in Space? Or does Russia deny all that too? Just wandering.

AirWÃ¶lf · « **Reply #356 on:** February 10, 2005, 01:42:21 PM »

Oh and if I can find the pic i saw on the net not long ago. I will post it. it's a photo taken of a Russian tank with soldiers on it laughing while dragging a chechen down the street by a rope tied to the tank. oh but Russia isn't cruel at all.

Boroda · « **Reply #357 on:** February 10, 2005, 01:51:56 PM »

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Originally posted by AirWölf
Oh and if I can find the pic i saw on the net not long ago. I will post it. it's a photo taken of a Russian tank with soldiers on it laughing while dragging a chechen down the street by a rope tied to the tank. oh but Russia isn't cruel at all.

The difference is that Federal troops drag dead terrorists this way, while Chechens do it to people who are still alive. This was a shoking film here too... But I can understand that soldiers. No funeral honours for terrorists.

One of their "field commanders" was nicknamed "Tractorist". For tearing people in two with a tractor.

Estel · « **Reply #358 on:** February 10, 2005, 03:48:09 PM »

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Originally posted by Toad
Even the Afghans had a choice of more than one candidate and more than one party.

Wow! Toad, looks like you never was in Afghanistan if you are talking such stupid things. Sorry for so sharp words. I'll spend few minutes to educate you about Afghanistan elections.

First of all: There is no central goverment. It's because all country is divided by regions, in each one there is a leader. The leadership is based on nationality. There are uzbeks, tadjiks, pushtu and others. In each region, there are clans based on nationality.

Second: Nobody and never will vote for a leader from another nation. But you understand, that president can be only one. So, all these "elections" is only a joke. Hamid Karzay is a president only for people of his nation. All others are his enemy and vice versa.

Third: Stabilising factor. Years ago the Soviet Army and Nadjibulla were this factor. This was a force wich divided all country into two parts. Years before that, the King was this factor. Now, Thaliban, US (via Pakistan), USSR (via itself), years of war annihilated this factor. They do not need "free elections". These elections will drive to a new war. They need new stabilising factor. And be patient, US Army will not be that factor. Because the hundreds years of history had shown, that there is no army wich can win the Afghanian war. There is no one.

I knew only one man, who could be that union force. The Pandsher Lion. Ahmad Shah Masud. But he is dead.

Toad · « **Reply #359 on:** February 10, 2005, 05:20:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda
So, you say they were shot down "outside Soviet airspace", over the Bartnts Sea.

How long did it take Soviet side to rescue them? Do you know how long can a man survive in Barents Sea? Maybe the answer is simply and they were shot down over Soviet land?...

Yes, outside Soviet airspace. The ICAO rules then and now are 12 miles offshore.

RB/RC tracks were planned a minimum of 20 miles offshore in my time. It was the same IIRC for Olmstead.

With the gear they had to wear about 30-40 minutes if in the ocean.

If in a raft, far, far longer.

They were not shot down over land. There was then and is now tracking procedures/information available.

McKone said they were picked up almost right away by a destroyer. IIRC, he said he thought it was a planned shootdown and the MiGs waited until they were over a naval group doing maneuvers.