Time to Declaw the F4U-1C

[indian]

I have heard you guys say not historicaly accurate want a HA want a fantasy arena and so on. Wake up this hole game is a fantasy arena If it had props and guns put it in here Ill try anything once. I like airplanes and aircraft of all type (yes there is a difference) all years dont care if it made it to the war dont care if it never saw combat as in the F8F this is a game with no rules combat last to live wins. If you think the -1c had very little combat look again it did both air and ground missions towards the end of the war. If you want to fear an F4U you better hope they never model the F4U-4 it will own the arena.

------------------
Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
  Cherokee Indian
My Homepage
Where you can find the Key Commands in  files for Word6 Wordpad and text mode.

indians Homepage

Aces High Word6 and Wordpad Doc's available on my web site.

[Gator]

> Wake up this hole game is a fantasy arena

Indian, I appreciate your concern, but I think we all know that this is a "simulation", not "real".  

Perhaps you missed some of our point, we would love for you to have your own arena with whatever matchups you want, but some of us prefer a more "historical" arena.  Hopefully both groups can be accomodated, no reason you can't have your "all years dont care" and "game with no rules".  That's the beauty of a simulation, right?  

[minus]

canonons are to efective in -*C make them
dull like a 190 cannons and u see no more Quake bird armys :-)

[Pongo]

Minus they are the same cannons as the Spit IX..
Just 4 of them and more ammo..
Putting German cannons on the corsair sounds like more of a quake type thing to do to me.
These where very common guns in WW2. It is a bit strange to see a US fighter with them but not that strange.
Gator. In the arena we have, US fighters have to intercept bombers of an entirely different class then they did historicaly. If the Axis had B17s or even B26s in force. The 47, 51, F4u and F6F would have been armed with 4 X M2 cannons.. the Jug probebly would have had 6 of them...
As you have seen in my post above, ruling out this cannon load out for historical reasons is not an option. It was too common. on other aircraft. Down grading the effectiveness of the cannons would be silly.  
Verm
the 1c is a great buff killer too.


------------------
Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

[Vermillion]

True Pongo, it does makes a good buff hunter  

But you better pray there aren't any escort fighters in the area.

------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
Dicta Verm: "Never give the suckers an even break!" or translated "Never engage without an advantage"

[Kieren]

With the number of buffs in the arena lately, I find myself more-and-more in the 1C. I'm able to get about any buff I chase (unless I run outta gas), and a couple fighters to boot on most missions. In fact, I often pick up a fighter or two on the deadstick glide! That doesn't speak to my "great skill", rather, you only need a quick look to kill.

About cannon vs. .50's:

The navy didn't want to worry about different types of armament on fighters, so they stuck with the .50's. Had nothing to do with the quality of the Hispano, which was outstanding.

[Toughgun]

WHINERS I heard all this crap before in another sim... Bah ! I would rather like someone who really flew the F4u in Combat to coment on weather the guns are too leathal then a bunch of guys who (think) they know everything.

HT please continue with what your team wish's and do not be swayed by Whiners.
Guns out.

[Westy]

   So direct and to the point ToughGun.

-Westy

[AKDejaVu]

 

I would rather like someone who really flew the F4u in Combat to coment on weather the guns are too leathal then a bunch of guys who (think) they know everything.

I'll take that a step further.  I'd like to see someone that flew the F4u in combat in Europe, Japan andd the Russian front against German, Allied, Russian, Italian and Japanese aircraft in an environment that didn't model random enemy gunfire nor any random effect at all.  Find that pilot, get his oppinion and then call everyone else a "know it all".

There is entirely to much focus on the 1C's cannons.  Why?... because that is all it has.  Once again, people are upset because they actually have to worry about the F4u when it enters a fight.  They actually have to be aware of its exact distance and position... where normally they only had to worry if it got on their 6 at 200 yards.

F4u-1c advantages:
4 Cannons
Top Speed
Reasonable handling at alt with > 50% fuel.

F4u-1c disadvantages:
Horrible 6 view
Climbs like a pig (er.. hog)
Accelerates slower than a 63 VW Beetle.
Consumes fuel FAST
Accelerates slower than half the planes in a dive
is out-turned by over half the aircraft at low alt
Is worthless for protecting a field unless you have 5:1 numbers.

Uberplane?  Hmmmm.

AKDejaVu

[Lephturn]

The cannons on the 1C are NOT too strong IMHO.  Look at the numbers for the Hispano cannons, they rule.

And no, I don't say rule the F4U-1C out on the basis of it's gun package.

There were only 200 of them!  I think we should only be seeing variants that are the most representative of their respective plane types.

BTW, the F4U-1C is no uber-plane, but it is a lot of fun.  It is a very good E fighter, and those who under-estimate it tend to die alot.    I'm running about a 3.5/1 K/D in it, and maybe a dozen kills out of 67 are from vulching.  Even then, only 6 or 7 kills in the 1C are from vulching a field with no ack.

------------------
Lephturn
The Flying Pigs

[AKDejaVu]

I'm not particularly worried about how many of the aircraft were manufactured.  I am more concerned with how it affect things in the environment in wich they are being used right now.  It doesn't un-balance the arena and it does add a particular element that was somewhat lacking... a buff hunter.

I believe the people that are saying:

 

In the arena we have, US fighters have to intercept bombers of an entirely different class then they did historicaly. If the Axis had B17s or even B26s in force. The 47, 51, F4u and F6F would have been armed with 4 X M2 cannons.. the Jug probebly would have had 6 of them...

Very little about the arena is historically accurate.  If there are HA arenas, then I am entirely in agreement with using reality based manufacturing numbers.  What flew in that arena should be used by HTC in that arena.  For the main arena, however, this is not the case.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, its not really fair to pull out "historical accuracy" when it suits you.  There is so little about this game that is historically accurate outside of the flight model (assumption on FM) that HA doesn't really hold any merrit.

AKDejaVu

[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 02-07-2000).]

[Minotaur]

 

Originally posted by Downtown:
I have been flying the 1C quite a bit.
<snip>
The Niki has 4 cannon also.

I like the speed and how tough a 1C is.

I think that it won't be flown very often, and I am not six veiw whining, but you just can't see out of the back of that damn plane.
<snip>

All very valid points Downtown, IMO.  My only response to you is that the N1K2 20mm does not have the trajectory that the Hispano 20mm in the F4U-1C does.  Or, for that matter, the 20mm in the 190A-8.  

The N1K2 20mm rounds seem to drop much faster, especially when the plane is under G load.  This makes getting a guns solution somewhat more difficult.  This is offset by the fact that the N1K2 is more manuverable than the F4U and the 190A-8.

The rear view does suck, requires manuvering the plane and numerous back quadrant views to clear your six.

Very good thread!  I remember, kind of the same thing when the 190A-8 was introduced.  At least the pressure is off the P-51.  

My opinion about the F4U-1C, leave it in the game.  

BTW, is it just me, or I not see very many LA-5's up these days?

Mino

[blitz]

All pro and contra's being said ill vote for: Leave it in the game as it is until we see mostly hogs in the sky (What will never be happen).

blitz

[Kieren]

The La5's ceiling is such now that, barring any ground attack, there is little use in flying it. 10K is about it for performance. The fights I found this weekend were all high (and that isn't a bad thing, necessarily).

[Westy]

 Hmmmm. I logged on last night for a few hours and the dogfights by F11 were low (below 15k). The usual arena furball stuff.
Alot of fun.
 And Cleaner nailed me in an LA5 very handily too.

-Westy