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Author Topic: Bf 109F-4 performance research page  (Read 4099 times)

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2005, 09:20:17 AM »
When the  first Bf 109 G-2 were issued to units they were cleared for 1.42 ata with a top speed higher then 670km/h

Problems with the quality of the production DB605A engines resulted in a derating to 1.30 ata.

The top speed for the Bf 109G-2 at 1.30 ata is similiar to the 109F-4 when run at 1.42 ata / 2700 rpm.

The G is less clean then the F and was a bit heavier.

Bf 109G-2 Finnish test
636 kmh - 6200m - 1.3 ata
522 kmh - 0m - 1.3 ata

Bf 109G-1 Rechlin
649 kmh - 7000m - 1.3 ata
525 kmh - 0m - 1.3 ata

Bf 109G-2 Russian
666 kmh - 7000m - ?
525 kmh - 0m - ?

I don't know the power settings for the Russian tests...
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Offline GScholz

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« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2005, 09:28:28 AM »
The G was not much of an improvement in design over the F. The G was a simplification of the F that allowed for higher production numbers. The only reason any G is faster than the F would be because of a more powerful powerplant.


I don't think there are any other 109 that has such clean lines as the F.



Well, at least if you remove that damn air filter ;)
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2005, 09:38:12 AM »
Marseilles 109F ??

(Drool)
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline GScholz

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« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2005, 09:48:09 AM »
Yup :)
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2005, 10:42:37 AM »
Actually I think the Bf109G2 is a cleaner design the Bf109F because of its more solid canopy structure.
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2005, 10:43:18 AM »
Image saved to HD

BTW, AFAIK, the 109F trop filter design was way better than the early Vokes filter on their Spit V opponents. In regards of drag, that is.
Later Spits solved it better, not sure what the trick was.

But 109's in trop colours were some of the coolest...and the 109F in N-Africa was one heck of a performer compared to many of it's opponents.
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Kurfürst

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« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2005, 11:06:16 AM »
The early 109G had virtually the same airframe as the 109F. You can barely tell the two apart, the most noticable external change being the front cocpit`s style. It was even an improvement in some regards, ie. the windshield armor was internal, and cost no drag unlike the one - sometimes - fitted to the 109F. Moreover the airframe was strenghtened, and the greatest importance being imho that all 109Gs were prepeared right in the factory to carry a large variety of easy-to-add field conversion kits (gunpods, GM-1, photorecon stuff etc.). 109Fs were just fighters. They were far less versatile. Moreover, the 605 had a lot of development potential over the 601s, a better high altitude engine even in its initial form. And mounting the 'new' engine (being little more than a upbored 601E) needed no modifications to the airframe... same dimensions.

Its just that due to delays in development, the 109G was not initially superior to the 109F in performance.

Ah, and the TSAGI graph posted shows the 109G-2 with five (gondolas) and 3 guns version, both at 1,42ata. 650 kph with gondolas, hmm... just compare to its main opponent Yak-3 or Spit V, both topping out at 600 kph max.
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Offline GScholz

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« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2005, 11:33:13 AM »
The G series added a lot of drag inducing modifications. Most of them small, but small things do add up in the end. Bigger oil cooler, wing bulges for the larger wheels, several small air intakes on the engine cowl etc. The G2 was also heavier.

All in all I'd bet the F-4 had less total drag than any G.
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2005, 01:37:17 PM »
Well, Rall said that the 109G was "overdeveloped".
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Wmaker

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« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2005, 01:49:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
When the  first Bf 109 G-2 were issued to units they were cleared for 1.42 ata with a top speed higher then 670km/h


I don't recall seeing a single german document showing speeds that high even with 1.42ata. Do you have the document? If so, could you send it my way? :) The highest speed I've seen for the early G is 700km/h for a 109G-4 flown by the TsaGi.

I did some testing in AH. Here are the results:

I had 100% fuel with fuel consumption and wind disabled. I tried to find the altitude for the highest speed.

MIL (1.3ata):

6706m (22000ft)-----634km/h (394mph)

6858m (22500ft)-----636km/h (395mph)

6934m (22750ft)-----636km/h (395mph)

7010m (23000ft)-----637km/h (396mph)

WEP (1.42ata)


6858m (22500ft)-----647km/h (402mph)

6934m (22750ft)-----647km/h (402mph)

7010m (23000ft)-----645km/h (401mph)

The purpose of this test was mainly to look for the altitude where AH's 109G-2 achieves its highest speed and to demonstrate that it falls a bit short from the 670km/h. Interesting thing happened at 23000ft where MIL speed rose by 1 mph but the WEP speed dropped by 1 mph. That looks a bit dubious, I might test it again and test alts a bit higher than 23000ft...
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Offline Wotan

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« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2005, 02:05:22 PM »
AH 109s:

Bf 109G-2 100% fuel 1 x 20mm / MG 151 200 RPG, fuel mod set to lowest value.

SL

Military Power – SL 38.9 MP @ 2600 RPM = 319 MPH
Emergency Power – SL 42.2 MP @ 2800 RPM = 339 MPH

5k

Military Power – 5000 FT 38.9 MP @ 2600 RPM = 349 MPH
Emergency Power – 5000FT 42.2 MP @ 2800 RPM = 367 MPH

10K

Military Power – 10000 FT 38.9 MP @ 2600 RPM = 366 MPH
Emergency Power – 10000 FT 42.2 MP @ 2800 RPM = 378 MPH

15K

Military Power – 15000 FT 38.9 MP @ 2600 RPM = 377 MPH
Emergency Power – 15000 FT 42.2 MP @ 2800 RPM = 388 MPH

20K

Military Power – 20000 FT 38.9 MP @ 2600 RPM = 388 MPH
Emergency Power – 20000 FT 42.2 MP @ 2800 RPM = 399 MPH

22K

Military Power – 22500 FT 38.9 MP @ 2600 RPM = 394 MPH
Emergency Power – 22500 FT 42.2 MP @ 2800 RPM = 401 MPH

Bf 109G-6 100% fuel 1 x 20mm / MG 151, fuel mod set to lowest value.

SL

Military Power – SL 38.9 MP @ 2600 RPM = 316 MPH
Emergency Power – SL 42.2 MP @ 2800 RPM = 335 MPH

5k

Military Power – 5000 FT 38.9 MP @ 2600 RPM = 341 MPH
Emergency Power – 5000FT 42.2 MP @ 2800 RPM = 359 MPH

10K


Military Power – 10000 FT 38.9 MP @ 2600 RPM = 356 MPH
Emergency Power – 10000 FT 42.2 MP @ 2800 RPM = 368 MPH

15K

Military Power – 15000 FT 38.9 MP @ 2600 RPM = 367 MPH
Emergency Power – 15000 FT 42.2 MP @ 2800 RPM = 377 MPH

20K

Military Power – 20000 FT 38.9 MP @ 2600 RPM = 378 MPH
Emergency Power – 20000 FT 42.2 MP @ 2800 RPM = 388 MPH

22K

Military Power – 22500 FT 38.9 MP @ 2600 RPM = 380 MPH
Emergency Power – 22500 FT 42.2 MP @ 2800 RPM = 390 MPH


109E-4 100% fuel 2 x 20mm / MGFF 60 RPG, fuel mod set to lowest value.

SL

Military Power – SL 37.6 MP @ 2400 RPM = 285 MPH
Emergency Power – SL 40.5 MP @ 2400 RPM = 292 MPH

5k

Military Power – 5000 FT 37.6 MP @ 2400 RPM = 304 MPH
Emergency Power – 5000FT 40.5 MP @ 2400 RPM = 311 MPH

10K

Military Power – 10000 FT 37.6 MP @ 2400 RPM = 323 MPH
Emergency Power – 10000 FT 40.5 MP @ 2400 RPM = 330 MPH

15K

Military Power – 15000 FT 37.6 MP @ 2400 RPM = 341 MPH
Emergency Power – 15000 FT 40.5 MP @ 2400 RPM = 344 MPH

MP falls off drastically at 20k. WEP adds no MP boost but the E-4 gains about 3 mph.

20K

Military Power – 20000 FT 32 MP @ 2400 RPM = 329 MPH
Emergency Power – 20000 FT 32 MP @ 2400 RPM = 332 MPH

22.5K

Military Power – 22500 FT 28.5 MP @ 2400 RPM = 320 MPH
Emergency Power – 22500 FT 28.5 MP @ 2400 RPM = 323 MPH

Quote
I don't recall seeing a single german document showing speeds that high even with 1.42ata. Do you have the document?


I don't own the documents so I can't post them but I have seen them referenced on Butch's forum. Maybe Kurfürst can provide some of the data.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2005, 11:10:41 AM by Wotan »
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Offline BUG_EAF322

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« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2005, 02:59:39 PM »
No allied bashers here ?
:aok
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Offline GScholz

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« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2005, 03:09:51 PM »
The crowd suddenly went silent and slowly turned their heads toward Bug.

"Look ... an alliedweeb!"

;)
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Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2005, 03:56:59 PM »
Get Him!!:mad:


:)


Crumpp
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2005, 05:10:01 PM »
Him?

Woot?


:rolleyes:
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)
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