Author Topic: Mig25 mach 3 capable?  (Read 10463 times)

Offline Elfie

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Mig25 mach 3 capable?
« Reply #180 on: February 09, 2005, 05:41:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Soviets and Americans had different concepts of shturmoviks (close ground support ACs). Americans made a dumb plane with smart weapons, while Russians made smart plane with dumb weapons. Now guess why Su-25s in Chechnya fly with non-guided rockets and FABs (dumb bombs).

A-10 will be limited to cannon when it will run out of expensive guided weapons. Su-25 will be always able to hit a sewer (cloaca) hatch with a 250kg (as they did in 1995 blowing up Chechen bunkers in Grozniy).


A-10 limited to cannon after the US runs out of guided weapons? Not hardly. The A-10 can carry just about any munition in the USAF inventory, including guided and UNguided munitions.
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Offline Elfie

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Mig25 mach 3 capable?
« Reply #181 on: February 09, 2005, 05:46:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
Key word here "when it will run out of expensive guided weapons"  


I'm not sure of the ord. capacity of the the SU25 but I know the A10 can carry a watermelon load of ord.  

BUT,  Its primary reason for being was to destroy commie tanks in europe during WWIII.  Not for blowing up sewers (allthough it is mighty capable)

Also there is nothing stopping the A10 from carrying "dumb" weapons at all.  I think it has proven itself more than enough on the battle field.  Ask any A10 driver that's ever taken damage how much they love their airplane
cool damage pics of A10s



Iirc the A-10 has 13 weapons pylons. The A-10 can indeed carry a crap load of ordinance. The A-10 was designed to kill tanks but that doesnt mean thats all it can do.
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Offline Elfie

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Mig25 mach 3 capable?
« Reply #182 on: February 09, 2005, 05:50:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
True.

Legends say that MiG-25 pilots in the North knew SR pilots by names and even chatted like friends. Other legends (that I don't believe) say that some guy refused to shoot at SR because he knew the pilot.

Other legends are that there were one or two SRs shot down in the Arctic, 25s were used as hounds and led SRs to a range of an undiscovered S-200 SAM. S-200 crew is supposed to deploy to a working condition from wheels in 14 hours - but I don't know anyone who will even try it. Anyway it's an adventure not worth shooting one enemy scout plane over tundra, and not even mentioning it in propaganda purposes like Powers U-2.

Please notice that SRs were used mostly in the areas not filled with aircraft defence. If it could dare to fly over Leningrad or Murmansk - it could last for no more then five minutes.


Heh the Sr-71 could, and did, outrun SAMs fired at it. I could tell you how I know that, but since it is still classified I'd have to kill all of you if I told.....and I am to lazy to do that ;)
Corkyjr on country jumping:
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Offline Rino

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Mig25 mach 3 capable?
« Reply #183 on: February 09, 2005, 06:01:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Yeah, when you pit the world's largest (or second largest) air force up against a tiny one you get those results. Ho Chi Minh was right when he said "You will kill 10 of our men, and we will kill 1 of yours, and in the end it will be you who tire of it".

A 3 to 1 kill ratio against the NV Migs IS a loss, a 12 to 1 kill ratio is perhaps breaking even under the circumstances. F-4 Phantom II - $18.4 million, Mig-21/Chinese F-7 - $1.2 million. The NV managed to field 200 Migs at most, had they used F-4s instead they would only have had an air force of 13 planes.


     Assuming every bird we lost was a Phantom is kinda stupid as
well.  There were an awful lot of F-105s flying over NVN as well.
In fact, Operation Bolo was used to
sucker Migs up to engage F4s flying in F-105 formations and using
F-105 callsigns.

     Having GCA radar vector your fighters to a prime position while
flying over your own territory seems a good way to counter
numbers, especially as Toad has pointed out, the enemy nerfs it's
own capabilities by rediculous ROE.
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Offline Elfie

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Mig25 mach 3 capable?
« Reply #184 on: February 09, 2005, 06:11:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen
The US also figured out that arming their planes with missiles only was a bad move..they started fitting the F4's with gunpods. Missiles where not reliable in those days. I saw on a documentary that something like one in four air to air missiles on both sides failed to fire or work properly.

Has nothing to do with the topic but but...but.....nevermind...

Now where is that wineopener..?


Thats true Nilsen, the F-D's were outfitted with 20mm gunpods until McDonnel Douglas could manufacture the F-4E with an internal, nose mounted 20mm gun.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Elfie

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Mig25 mach 3 capable?
« Reply #185 on: February 09, 2005, 06:18:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Yes they could not pursue the Migs to their home fields, neither could the Migs pursue the US due to being completely outnumbered. What other ROE limitations were imposed on the US pilots? Surly when combat was initiated they were free to engage at will. Your ROE excuse is just that ... an excuse.

The VPAF never had a strength of more than 200 planes, compare that with the more than 8500 aircraft the US lost during the Vietnam War. You did lose the war Toad. ;)


Your figure of 8500 US aircraft lost in Vietnam is rather misleading. That includes jets lost due to ground fire and includes helicopter losses.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Elfie

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Mig25 mach 3 capable?
« Reply #186 on: February 09, 2005, 07:24:12 PM »
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WE didn't have strategic bombers, 25 megaton load each, on CAP ready to burn millions of people to ashes 24/7 as you did in 60s. Understand it and please STFU.


That was part of our policy of deterrent. It worked quite well. Maybe YOU should understand it? ;)
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Offline Toad

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Mig25 mach 3 capable?
« Reply #187 on: February 09, 2005, 09:38:21 PM »
Scholz, read "A Better War" by Lewis Sorley, then get back to me on the war.

We lost politically, not militarily.

As for the MiG's it was plenty bad for them and would have been MUCH worse if they'd been subjected to unrestricted air warfare.

If you don't realize that, no point in discussing it.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline NUKE

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Mig25 mach 3 capable?
« Reply #188 on: February 09, 2005, 09:45:44 PM »
The Mig 25 was a pile of crap compaired to the SR-71. The SR-71 FAR outperfomed it.....and the SR-71 was 1950's US technology.....first flew in 1964.

Offline Masherbrum

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Mig25 mach 3 capable?
« Reply #189 on: February 09, 2005, 11:59:38 PM »
I know this much.

The Mig-25 set an absolute world altitude record of 123,524 ft.   The Mig-25 WAS NOT a fighter, it was an Interceptor (just like the Tomcat).   The Mig-25 had two Tumansky 11,000kg/24,250lb afterburning thrust R-31 turbojet engines (i.e. NOT a Ramjet, like previously emplored by someone in the thread).   The range of the Mig-25 was around 700miles.

Quote
Originally posted by Roscoroo
" I think some of the guys are thinking about the YE- 155 / 266 (whatever it was called) which was like a Mig-25 and it did set alot of alt and speed records in its time. "


I think the following wil clear this up for all:

On July 25, 1973, a Ye-266, using the same airframe as the MiG-25 but equipped with more powerful engines, set the world's absolute altitude record for a ground-launched air-breathing aircraft, reaching 118,867 ft. (36,230 m). On August 31, 1977, the record was broken by a modified MiG-25 (E-266M) and taken to 123,524 ft. (37,650 m).

As for the F-15.  Everyone has skipped over the F-15A "Streak Eagle" which broke eight time-to-climb world records between Jan. 16 and Feb. 1, 1975. In setting the last of the eight records, it reached an altitude of 98,425 ft. just 3 minutes 27.8 seconds from brake release at takeoff and "coasted to nearly 103,000 ft. before descending".  

The Mig-25 is surely an incredible aircraft in terms of performance and it's ability to outclimb all takers, but every other category is sorely lacking, when looking at an "overall type picture".  

When I think of sweet Soviet Aircraft I think of the Sukhoi-Su-37.   It is without a doubt the most manueverable aircraft in the World, save it is still not in production.  

On 10 March 1987 and 23 March 1988, an Su-27 (designated P-42), flown by Sukhoi test pilots Viktor Pugachev, Nikolai Sadovnikov, Evgeny Frolov (who brought the Su-37 to Farnborough) and Oleg Tsoi. Together they established 27 new world time-to-height/climb records which were formally held by the McAir "Streak Eagle" F-15 on 16 January 1975 flown by Majors Roger Smith and Willard MacFarlane. The new records included:

ˆ 25.373 seconds to 3,000 meters (9,842 feet)
ˆ 36.050 seconds to 6,000 meters (19,685 feet)
ˆ 44.176 seconds to 9,000 meters (29,527 feet)
ˆ 55.542 seconds to 12,000 meters (39,370 feet)
ˆ 70.329 seconds to 15,000 meters (49,213 feet)

AS for an F-15 vs Mig-25 meeting:

In one incident, an Iraqi Foxbat-E eluded eight American F-15's, firing three missiles at EF-111 electronic warfare aircraft and forcing them to abort their mission. In another incident, two MiG-25's approached a pair of F-15 Eagles, fired missiles (which were evaded by the F-15's), and then outran the American fighters. Two more F-15's joined the pursuit, and a total of ten air-to-air missiles were fired at the Foxbats, none could reach them.

Well, I am tired, and probably offended someone with these facts.  I really don't care either, Good night.

Karaya

PS - The A-10 is STILL my fav. current ride in the air.
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