f-16s vs Mig 29s

[NUKE]

All I can say is that the Mig-29 and the F-16 are very good looking planes.

[DREDIOCK]

Doesnt matter who has what advantage on paper or in training.
Cause in a real life fight (the ones that matter most) 2 Mig29's got thrashed and trashed by  F16's

[genozaur]

Originally posted by kevykev56
The F16 is going to have a greater range to see and shoot the enemy. The Avionics are far superior. And if the Mig does get to fire his missle the Electronic Countermeasures onboard are far superior than the Mig. This fight would be all BVR and maneuverability would not even be an issue.

Looks like you don't even need that poor F-16 as a fighter. It has become just a missile range extension tool.  Congratulation on a new type of weaponry.  

[CyranoAH]

I'd accept either as a present

Daniel

[genozaur]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Doesnt matter who has what advantage on paper or in training.
Cause in a real life fight (the ones that matter most) 2 Mig29's got thrashed and trashed by  F16's

DRED, where did you get the idea that there was any fight ? Two MiG-29s WERE SHOT DOWN.
No details.

[NUKE]

US planes are the best looking overall.

[Replicant]

F16s vulched the MiG-29s  Well, the F16s were already over Syria, it seems that te MiGs were scrambled to intercept.  I would guess that the F16s already had their radar pointing at the nearest airbases anticipating an interception.  If the MiGs were already airbourne when engaged by the F16s then the MiGs were probably at a disadvantage of having to ID the aircraft as enemy before engagement.  Anyone know Syrian ROE?  Whereas the F16s knew straight away that it was going to be a Syrian aircraft intercepting them; no chance of friendly fire.

BTW  I think Israel are taking the p1$$; they look for trouble and then when they get it they say they're being picked on.

[Staga]

Yeah but don't forget they are the "victims" so they get the "Get out from jail free" card = At SC the US will use its Veto.

Like always.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by genozaur
DRED, where did you get the idea that there was any fight ? Two MiG-29s WERE SHOT DOWN.
No details.

Ok you have a point there.

Curious though. IRL how many F16's have been "Shot down" by Mig 29's?..In total...ever?

[Furball]

Originally posted by NUKE
US planes are the best looking overall.

I dont know about that... F-15 is a great looking plane, F-16 is pretty, F-18 is ugly and the  F-22 just puts the smurfy factor way up.


Paintjobs got you beat hands down

[kevykev56]

Originally posted by GScholz
*lol* This thread reeks of ignorance, especially of the moron who claimed that it would be a bvr engagement considering that in the actual engagement dogfight missiles were used.

Do you people actually believe the Israeli F-16s were operating independently from the vastly superior Israeli C3? Israeli AWACS was probably covering most of Syria during the operation. While the MiG-29s only had their own limited radar to scan for the Israelis the F-16s could sneak up on them with their radars off and splash them with heat-seekers.

Btw. The Israelis have helmet-mounted sights too. Even Norway's F-16 pilots have those now, and the Python 4 missile has a very good off-boresight capability.

I would be the one you are calling a moron. I used the BVR as a general term of today’s fighting, not for this particular engagement. I was not making any reference to this engagement as you have, loaded with assumptions.  Since you are referring this why do you think that just because it was short range missiles it wasn’t BVR. The Python-4 has a max range of 15miles and the Aim-9 has a max of 18miles. Given this let’s say they were at 10NM when shooting the missiles. Now can you see a Mig29 from that range? What were the weather conditions of the fight? Was it a clear and sunny day? Or was it cloudy? And why would the Migs only have their "limited” radars. You don’t think Syria has powerful ground based search radars that can see better than AWACS? No sir I think I am no Moron. Only those who assume can make that of themselves.

[Cobra412]

Credited by which side on the F-117 kill?  I'm sure I know more about the F-117 that was downed than the majority of the news casts.  Before it was even published that one had been downed I knew about the incident from a combat photographer.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by GScholz


This has been proven wrong in most cases. In almost every MiG-29 shoot-down to date the MiGs had to be visually identified. It is unlikely that such rules would change in the near future. Also the one F-16 shot down by a MiG-29 over Serbia/Kosovo was shot down by a dogfight missile (most likely R-73). The MiG-29 is also the only aircraft credited with a kill on a stealth plane (also over Serbia/Kosovo).

F117 was brought down by SAM's. So was O'grady. (f16) One of the Mig-29s that got shot down was by f16s vectored in by an E-3. If you have a link that says the range I would like to see it because I cant find one. I did see they used at least 1 AMRAAM to kill the MIG.

[BUG_EAF322]

The dutch already did this to an servian Mig29

They shot 1 BVR

So sofar F16 vs Mig 29 its 3 -  0

that a K/D of 3.0

looking at the numbers the F16 is better.

[kevykev56]

Originally posted by GScholz
Ok, kev ... lets review what you stated:




This is wrong. Depending on the electronic environment, radar superiority can go either way. The MiG's radar is more powerful and has a greater range, however the F-16's radar has better signal processing.



This is wrong. Neither the F-16 nor the MiG-29 has onboard ECM. Both are however capable of carrying ECM pods. These ECM pods are constantly upgraded to better protect against new threats. Whether the NATO pods or the Russian pods are superior is anyone's guess.



This has been proven wrong in most cases. In almost every MiG-29 shoot-down to date the MiGs had to be visually identified. It is unlikely that such rules would change in the near future. Also the one F-16 shot down by a MiG-29 over Serbia/Kosovo was shot down by a dogfight missile (most likely R-73). The MiG-29 is also the only aircraft credited with a kill on a stealth plane (also over Serbia/Kosovo).

GScholz let me give you a little background about myself. I will start by saying I have an intimate knowledge of all the equipment in this conversation. I have been an aircraft avionics technician and now an engineer for the past 16 years. I have worked on many Radar and ECM systems (131 and 184Pods included). Both of wich are carried by the F16. I also have intimate knowledge about the rest of the worlds electronic systems(entire RF spectrum). I am currently a test and development engineer for new Electronic Warfare systems(Hardware and Software).  And I will 100% stand by the statments I have made.

And on the stealth downing, im with Cobra412 on this one, know your facts before you speak. Unless of course you dont have all the facts.