Originally posted by Karnak
Savage,
Until the very post that I claimed I was being nasty in I have always refrained from such. You're ludicrous claim about the Tempest (which I don't really care about, but it was to big a lie to let you get away with) and the Ki-84 provoked that response. I should have held my my self control better.
You get very nasty, very fast with anybody who doubts anything about your claims regarding the P-38. I've read most of your posts on the subject and, in general, you come off as a rabid P-38 fan who cherry picks the data you base your claims on in order to make your pet fighter out to be the best you can. Barbi does this same thing in regards to the Bf109, and does you one better by also cherry picking the worst data for everything else.
My snide "derived" P-38 comment was meant to be over the top. The only thing I have actually seen you claim that is close to any of that is a 450mph top speed for the P-38L (or J). Nonetheless, that is the kind of P-38 that your posts project, a fighter with no significant flaws and an easy answer to everything.
Frankly, I'm just a bit tired of hearing the persecution complex from players who have one of the best air-to-air fighters in the game, and the single best aircraft in the game when looked at from a balanced perspective. One that has nearly none of the vices that the P-38 had in reality. The P-38 is a great fighter in AH and the persistant whines about it are really old.
Like I said, if you'd read the post I made afterwards, the example of the Tempest was nothing more than a mistake on my part, I meant Typhoon. I typed Tempest because I was busy and in a hurry, and I had Saturday night on my mind, where I did actually see a huge number of Tempests ( I saw at least 20 or so Saturday night, in groups of 3 to 5). Oh, and you might not read this, but in case you do, go back and look, I said ONE Tempest augered, two went HO, along with one Spit, and it took those six after the first augered about 5 or 6 turns to get me when I was already low and slow. I meant to mention Typhoons because about every other flight or so for a couple of months I saw the Typhoon used the same way the LA7 is often used, and in pairs and in groups, with the same tactics. HO, cherry pick, and run, just happens to annoy me a great deal, and those planes are the ones I see used that way.
You may not be seeing the same planes I see when I fly. I do happen to see a lot of KI84's and Typhoons, the Typhoon being a recent thing. It is not my problem that you don't face the same planes I seem to. I just happen to see what I see when I fly. And it happens to be that I see more KI84s than you do. Granted, they are not nearly so preveleant as Spitfires and LA7s. On the other hand, it seems to have a pretty decent set of guns, and there are those in this game who will take a plane that has decent speed, good acceleration, and decent maneuverability, combined with a set of guns that works well HO, and fly it just that way. I have seen 1 or 2 KI84s out of 10 or so planes on most hops. Sometimes I don't see any. Unfortunately, 4 out of 5 of the ones I do see will HO and cherry pick in the same way that 4 out of 5 LA7s will. It is a good plane that takes skill and practice to learn to really fight in, and it annoys me to see it used poorly.
I never claimed 450MPH for the P-38L either, but don't let that stop you. Read the post above, it comes from Warren Bodie, and the data is from Lockheed, it is not "cherry picked". It's 442 to 444 MPH at critical altitude and it comes directly from Lockheed logs. Since a lot of planes are modeled with factory data, I figure it is a valid comparison number. The only P-38 I ever said could exceed 450 in level flight was the P-38K, it was a prototype, not a production model, it had even more power than the L and better props. It was never produced and I never asked that it be modeled.
I only respond to people the way they respond to me. You debate me in a calm rational manner, and I'll respond in kind. Take cheap shots and spew crap, and I'll get nasty if that's what you want. If you start off with a nasty shot at me, I'll reply that way.
Take note of the P-38 spin recovery thread posted by Oldman. The ONLY thing I posted was a brief synopsis of the spin recovery section of Lockheeds test pilot logs and articles, followed by a verbatim post of exactly what was there. The next thing you know, and you'll see this if you look, along comes the same exact crew that shows up in ANY discussion about the P-38, and they start the same thing. Not one word was said about the plane being modeled wrong, no one was campaigning for any changes, there was a discussion on how you are supposed to recover a spin following a stall. Look what happened and look who started it. If you can't see how that started, I can't help you, and we've nothing further to discuss. If you want to blame me for that, go right ahead, I know the truth, and the rest I don't give a damn about. That is merely the most recent example.
Yes, I am a P-38 fan, a hardcore P-38 fan. I've had P-38 models since I was 6. My uncle and my aunt worked for Consolidated Vultee in Nashville during the war when they built 113 of them. My father was in the USAAC in the SouthWest Pacific, he worked on them. I've been fortunate enough to meet a lot of the pilots who flew them, and I still swap emails with some of the few who survive. I did a lot of research for a couple of projects I was invited to join regarding McGuire and a coupe of others.
I have no persecution complex. I don't think or claim that HTC has a grudge or a conspiracy against the plane. I disagree with a couple of their positions. I don't like autoretract, I don't like the way it is setup, and I think the P-38 accelerates a little slow. I understand their position on autoretract, I don't think it is intended to handicap the P-38 in particular. I think the accleration is off because the power is low, and the power is low because of the reduced top speed rating they get from the USAAC/USAAF settings. I think those are the settings they chose, not because they have a bias against the plane, but because they are the most widely published and they are USAAC/USAAF accepted, despite the fact that I know pilots and crewchiefs who routinely used the Lockheed settings.
Regarding what you're tired of, I'm just as tired of the same people coming in to EVERY thread regarding the P-38 and starting the same crap they always start. You can't even discuss stall recovery without the same tired B.S. spewed by the same people. Remember that the next time you decide to get nasty.
