Author Topic: A stupid P38 question... (Read 3615 times)

Guppy35 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 16, 2005, 09:14:09 PM »

The Ethell 38 crash accident report is online:

https://extranet.nasdac.faa.gov/pls/nasdac/STAGE.NTSB_BRIEF_REPORT?EV_ID=20001208X08240&AC_VAR=FALSE&ENG_VAR=FALSE&INJ_VAR=FALSE&FT_VAR=FALSE&OCC_VAR=FALSE&WTHR_VAR=FALSE&PNARR_VAR=FALSE&FNARR_VAR=FALSE&CNARR_VAR=FALSE&NARR_VAR=

Always wondered what his father Erv Ethell thought as he was there to witness the crash. A tragic irony that Erv the P38 Combat vet and instructor would lose his son in a 38 crash

Dan/Slack

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #31 on:** February 16, 2005, 09:32:17 PM »

I saw a picture of the crash scene, once, and never found it again. I wish I could find the pictures from the report somewhere.

I know a couple of the P-38 pilots who knew Jeff, and who he corresponded with before he flew the P-38. All were stunned, and deeply affected.

Murdr · « **Reply #32 on:** February 17, 2005, 01:05:19 AM »

Scanned this.

Murdr · « **Reply #33 on:** February 17, 2005, 01:28:14 AM »

Here is a sad sight

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #34 on:** February 17, 2005, 06:46:51 AM »

Worse than sad, it's downright criminal. The cheapest the government ever sold them was $1250, they paid over $100K.

Bodhi · « **Reply #35 on:** February 17, 2005, 01:02:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
That is very interesting Bodhi. It does not at all match what I was told by people I talked to.

Have you seen the plane or pictures of it? I saw one picture of the crash site itself and the plane, but I have not seen it but once. A bulldozer (average bulldozer would be 6 to 8 FEET wide)driven over the rear sections of the tailbooms would likely destroy everything between the back of the engines and the horizontal and vertical stabilizers. The insurance company must have paid Pruett an incredible settlement for him to allow them to do that to the plane.

I was also told that Pruett wanted to wash his hands of the planes and all matters concerning them as soon as his suit with Erickson was settled.

I'm not aware of the lawsuit between Jeff's family and Bruce Pruett. I was aware that Pruett sued Jack Erickson. I take it Jeff's family is accusing Pruett of negligence of some sort.

Airport personnel told at least 2 P-38 pilots who went to see it that it had been cut up into small pieces and sold for salvage, the day after the FAA released the wreckage.

All in all Bodhi, you have some very interesting information, I'd like to "hear" more. Thanks.

Virgil,

I have seen the aircraft back in 2001 or 2002, can not remember which time I was out there. Anyways, the aircraft is in very sad shape, and is parts salvagable only. I can not release it's location as I was asked not to by the owner when I was dealing with him.

The reason the insurance company attempted to destroy the aircraft was because a settlement was paid. At that point the aircraft belonged to them. For them it was smart to destroy it then sell it as scrap (that way they could never lose money on it again), which they did do, with the former owner getting first dibs on the purchase.

Will it fly again, it's possible, but I highly highly doubt it.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #36 on:** February 17, 2005, 03:15:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Worse than sad, it's downright criminal. The cheapest the government ever sold them was $1250, they paid over $100K.

Those are the Phillipine birds, and if folks in the warbird world are to be believed, there is a recovery effort underway right now that has found some of those 38s that were buried after the war.

Dan/Slack

BUG_EAF322 · « **Reply #37 on:** February 17, 2005, 03:39:28 PM »

IGNORE THE FOKKER !!

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #38 on:** February 17, 2005, 06:09:23 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Bodhi
Virgil,

I have seen the aircraft back in 2001 or 2002, can not remember which time I was out there. Anyways, the aircraft is in very sad shape, and is parts salvagable only. I can not release it's location as I was asked not to by the owner when I was dealing with him.

The reason the insurance company attempted to destroy the aircraft was because a settlement was paid. At that point the aircraft belonged to them. For them it was smart to destroy it then sell it as scrap (that way they could never lose money on it again), which they did do, with the former owner getting first dibs on the purchase.

Will it fly again, it's possible, but I highly highly doubt it.

I would not ask you to divulge the whereabouts of the plane. I know the pictures I saw from the scene, before the guy butchered it during the recovery, and before the insurance company butchered it when they got their hands on it, showed that there was hope for it.

No longer than it flew, I'm sure the insurance company did lose money on it. However, I see no excuse, profit wise, for doing more damage to the plane. They could just as easily have sold the wreck for more money (the difference would likely have been a lot more than they paid to have the dozer drive over it), and never insured it again. The loss was already there, further damage causing the wreck to be worth less couldn't possibly save them any money, or prevent them from losing more. It's sort of like when the total a car, once it has been totaled, it can only be titled as a rebuild in most states. Crushing it will only mean you get less for what's left.

I too doubt it will ever fly again. I'm sure the stupidity of the insurance company nearly guaranteed that. I was told by people who knew Pruett that he was not interested in fixing it.

I had heard before that the story that it had been cut up for salvage was a cover up invented to keep Pruett from being hassled about it.

Several years ago, a guy named Rick Flaherty offered me a huge bunch of parts he claimed to own. It amounted to 3 wrecks, including Pete Sherman's plane, but lacked engines and most all of the center nacelles were completely gone. The price was low, $70K, and he said he could talk to Pruett and thought he could get that wreck and sell it to me, but nothing ever came of it. My wife's bout with cancer ended that dream less than a year later.

Captain Virgil Hilts · « **Reply #39 on:** February 17, 2005, 06:19:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Guppy35
Those are the Phillipine birds, and if folks in the warbird world are to be believed, there is a recovery effort underway right now that has found some of those 38s that were buried after the war.

Dan/Slack

Dan,
You may remember that back in 2001, I got involved with a former USAF fighter pilot named David Mason, who was pursuing the wreck of McGuire's plane, and wanting to write the comprehensive story of what happened. This was halted by 11 September 2001, although we'd made great progress, and I had three P-38 pilots involved in the story, along with Warren Bodie. David eventually published some stuff, but it was pretty one sided stuff from Thropp, who evidently had an axe to grind with Weaver. David also eventually found the crash site, and the Philipino farmer who recovered McGuire's body and hid it from the Japanese.

David also eventually became involved with recovery efforts at Clark Field, however, I've not heard of any real progress. Also I noticed recently there are rumors that there were P-38's buried near here, in Nashville, where the old Consolidated Vultee plant where 113 were built.

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #40 on:** February 17, 2005, 08:33:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Murdr

That's just another text book +Nomad squadron landing.

ack-ack

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #41 on:** February 18, 2005, 02:03:31 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Guppy35
Those are the Phillipine birds, and if folks in the warbird world are to be believed, there is a recovery effort underway right now that has found some of those 38s that were buried after the war.

Dan/Slack

This kinda piques my curiousity. If any planes are recovered, even in pieces, are they salvage? Or does the US Gov. have a claim on them? Also, if there are currently recovery efforts, are they run or backed by US Gov funding, or are they private enterprises? If there is any information to narrow this down a bit I'd like to do some digging (figuratively anyway lol) to find out more. Not that I have any kind of connection like some of you seem to have with this kind of thing, its just personal curiousity.

Thanks!

hogenbor · « **Reply #42 on:** February 18, 2005, 02:25:18 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
IGNORE THE FOKKER !!

It's useless BUG, these are American P-38 fanatics and Fokker sounds to much like the infamous 'F-word'.

Besides, the G-1 was made of wood and only fought 4 days in service of a woefully unprepared air force (ours

) unless you count war booty G-1's in Luftwaffe service as Zerstörer trainers. Besides, it's not American (did I say that already?) and not nearly as technologically advanced as the P-38.

It IS however the fastest and most technologically advanced fighter of pure Dutch design and manufacture. Have you ever seen the replica in Soesterberg? There's a D-21 there too. Did you ever read the G-1 book by Hugo Hooftman? It's rather primitive by todays standards but contains a wealth of information. I have an ex-library copy of it.

Regards,

Ronald

Guppy35 · « **Reply #43 on:** February 18, 2005, 02:39:50 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
This kinda piques my curiousity. If any planes are recovered, even in pieces, are they salvage? Or does the US Gov. have a claim on them? Also, if there are currently recovery efforts, are they run or backed by US Gov funding, or are they private enterprises? If there is any information to narrow this down a bit I'd like to do some digging (figuratively anyway lol) to find out more. Not that I have any kind of connection like some of you seem to have with this kind of thing, its just personal curiousity.

Thanks!

USN lays claim to all their lost birds. USAF/USAAF declared them lost etc. I don't know the details and no one is sharing them as it's apparently being done 'quietly' as not to draw too much of a crowd. If you hang around the warbird boards, the topic comes up and the folks commenting on it seem credible.

Not US government backed though. Individuals with the bucks and the cooperation of the Phillipine Govt.

I'd like to know more too, but it's gone quiet lately. Supposadly photos of some of the first recovered are out there somewhere and considering they were buried they were not in horrible shape.

As with any warbird hunt, you always have to take it with a grain of salt of course as it could turn out to be zilch.

Dan/Slack
Who wishes he'd just win the lottery one time

Widewing · « **Reply #44 on:** February 18, 2005, 01:18:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
This kinda piques my curiousity. If any planes are recovered, even in pieces, are they salvage? Or does the US Gov. have a claim on them? Also, if there are currently recovery efforts, are they run or backed by US Gov funding, or are they private enterprises? If there is any information to narrow this down a bit I'd like to do some digging (figuratively anyway lol) to find out more. Not that I have any kind of connection like some of you seem to have with this kind of thing, its just personal curiousity.

Thanks!

There was a similar case years ago. When the USAAF bulldozed and buried any aircraft, they surrendered any claim to them. Just like anything you place in the trash, you signal your surrender of any ownership claim.

My regards,

Widewing