I Condemn The "fudged-up" Icon Settings

[humble]

Originally posted by Wotan
A Spit IX at 2k is a different fight then a Spit V at 2k. So is a Spit V  at 15k different then a IX at 15k. There are noticeable performance differences that become evident once the fight is joined.

These same types of differences can be seen in other plane types like the 109 variants for example.

Folks who have flown for a while can pick out these differences without an icon. Once the fight is on then most folks will fly the same way, the way they are most comfortable with. What the icons do is allow them to pick the exact plane they wish to fight and avoid the ones that might be a bit tougher. 'Spit V  nope, FM2 nope, ok here it is sucker in a P-40B...'

HT hasn't said that the new icons were in response to make perk icons fair. In fact previously he has said he made the perk icons that way so they would stand out and so they would be 'ganged'. I can quote his old post on that if there's doubt.

Whatever the reason for this change it's impact will be on earlier variants such as the Spit 1, Hurri 1 and Emil etc. Its not like you see a lot of those anyway but I would guess you will see even less.

While you may go after any enemy that's closest the majority of players in AH are not Levi. As I said the 'horde' follows the path of least resistance. That's why you see the hordes in the first place.

But as long as the majority are having fun who cares...

Personally, I thought the original beta AH2 icons were perfect...

Hmmmm....

I could care less what "flavor" the other guy is in...good ACM is good ACM....obviously you might adjust a bit 109F vs G10 (as example)....but not much. Only to the degree your worried about him running away.

Personally I think plane type is greatly overrated vs other variables...

[Spongebob]

In RL a pilot only had to ID the planes silouette or shape from a distance and then decide if it was a model plane that the enemy flew. "Hmmm, looks like a 109, think I'll go kill it" Certainly there were some mistakes, but one thing I know is they didn't need to wait to read the markings on the plane see if the 109 was British, American, or German (read Nit, Bish, or Rook). Thus no Icons would only work in the CT. So I think the icon system is also a way of compensating for every plane being available for every side in the MA, along with many other reasons already mentioned.

For what it's worth, I like the new system. I've also seen more F4U4s lately than I've seen in a year. I killed about half of them, which means they are engaging more than before the new icon system was in place.  BTW, does the Ta152 morph from an FW190 or does it still have it's own icon?

Magoo

[plank]

Originally posted by DamnedRen

IMHO the CT is used by folks that don't want to deal with the large numbers and SA required to fly and fight in the MA. They are two different animals.

Yes, they are two different animals but no I don't like the CT because I don't have the SA to fly in the MA. Hell, I don't have the SA to fly anywere for that matter It's the historical matchups and necessary honing of skills in planes that are less than perfect. I sure don't see too many emils flying around in the MA

I understand you were being slightly sarcastic but I've got a glass jaw

[DamnedRen]

My bad. I sorry Plank...I was being sarcastic and apologize.

I think one of the reasons for the CT is for just for the reasons you mentioned. Not everyone eats pork and beans so ya gotta have a bigger menu at the resturaunt. Likewise, they AH2 offers different arenas so you have a choice of flying styles. Not bad if ya ask me.

So, as long as you're having fun that's what counts. If ya want a primer on SA and what not please feel free to shoot me an email for some chat sessions.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by DamnedRen
IMHO the CT is used by folks that don't want to deal with the large numbers and SA required to fly and fight in the MA. They are two different animals.

Probably there's a kernel of truth in this.  For example, CT people are not very skilled in figuring out which runway to pick in order to avoid the greatest number of vulchers.  Also, CT flyers generally lose count when the number of enemy planes following them exceeds four.  And I have often noticed that CT regulars are absolutely bewildered by enemies who refuse to engage.

- oldman

[plank]

Bah, no worries Ren. Like I said, I've got a glass jaw.

And I'll take anyone's offer for a training session, I can always use it

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Oldman731
Probably there's a kernel of truth in this.  For example, CT people are not very skilled in figuring out which runway to pick in order to avoid the greatest number of vulchers.
- oldman

Hmmmmmm......This CT thing might be worth a closer look. ROFL

[DktrEvil]

I wanted to clarify my previous comments concerning ZERO Icons:

First, I feel it would be useful only when you have Historical planesets (which I tend to fly as much as I can) or in H2H FFA.

Second There is a new setting in AHII that allows you to set the "FullIconRange" from 24000 to 1.  I set mine to 1 so nobody sees the extra icon information. This will explain why you might see this information at different distances in different arenas

I agree that numbers in any particular arena are not indicative of anything. Different strokes for different folks. I applaud HiTech for the variety offered to everyone.  I personally do not like arenas stuffed to the gills with "spray and pray" types in only 2 or three different types of planes.

I prefer the smaller "Historical" or "Reality" based arenas where the radar, ammo and planesets are limited. I used to fly the CT reguarly and had some good times there.  I have since gone to Free Multiplayer only, which are limited to only 8 peoples at a time and I have have a great time there.  Once again I applaud HiTech for allowing people this option.

I am presently running an "Allied versus Axis" arena with the settings as real as I can get (no outside view, stall limiter off, limited radar ranges and altitudes and limited fuel and ammo, bases only flash for vehicles and boats , etc).  One of the requests I have, is the ability as a CM to turn Icons on or off or shorten their range either for friendly or enemy or both.  I flew "Scenerios" when I was in WB (long ago) which had no icons or very short icons and it was A LOT of fun and very enlightening.

I hope AHII will eventually allow CM's the ability to change Icon settings and will also someday set up an arena that is based on more Historical settings like no outside views, limited radar, short or no icon ranges, limited ammo, no flashing bases for fighters and bombers etc. Not everyone would fly this arena but those that did would enjoy it very much.

I miss this type of arena and would return to being a paying customer if one were available.

P.S. I disagree that MA flyers have better SA than CT flyers. I would propose that MA flyers on average have worse SA than CT flyers.  There are a lot more inexperienced flyers in MA than there were in the CT.  MA flyers are more of the instant gratification mindset and less of SA, Strategy or Realistic mindset, this explains the reason the CT had smaller numbers. To MA'ers it is merely a game of kill or get killed as fast as you can.

[DamnedRen]

"P.S. I disagree that MA flyers have better SA than CT flyers. I would propose that MA flyers on average have worse SA than CT flyers. There are a lot more inexperienced flyers in MA than there were in the CT. MA flyers are more of the instant gratification mindset and less of SA, Strategy or Realistic mindset, this explains the reason the CT had smaller numbers. To MA'ers it is merely a game of kill or get killed as fast as you can."

Actually Dktr, you have it backwards. The higher number of people flying around requires your SA be much better than that of the small numbers you find in the CT. Being able to look at the "big picture" and weed out threat v non-threat is much more difficult with the numbers in a large multiplayer arena and thats a historical fact and has been that way for the past 12 years that
I've been playing on-line WW2 flight sims.
That is one of the reasons those with lower SA gravitate to the CT so they can enjoy themselves with the less pressure of "never letting your guard down for an instant in the combat area". Hmmmm, come to think of it that's kinda historicakky accurate too In the war they never let their guard down or they died for it.

Now take two aspirins and ca.....never mind.

[DktrEvil]

SA is SA no matter how many planes are around.  You either have it/use it or you don't.

Saying you have "better" SA just because you fly amongst larger numbers is not necessarily a true statment. As a matter of fact, good SA would tell you NOT to fly into a large number of enemy fighters unless absolutely necessary or unless your in a game and you want quick "spray and pray" action for the few seconds/minutes you will be alive.

You can still fly among larger numbers and have terrible SA and many do. Not everyones SA improves in your "large numbers environment" simply because, not everyone seeks to improve it.

One of the reasons I am requesting more realistic environments is to show how important it is to be aware of what is around you at all times.  In WB's I was able to "jump" many pilots because they were in "friendly" airspace many miles from enemy lines and there was no reason to check your six or worry about SA so close to home.

I was also able to get many kills because the lack of unlimited radar and outside views did not give pilots the SA crutch of dots on the map and "outside view early warning" from miles away.

I know what you are thinking, I just proved your point, but the same kills are being made 10 times over in the MA even with the outside views and Radar covering the entire map.

Assuming someone that flys in a low numbers environment has terrible SA is a big mstake. It's not the environment but the individual that determines SA skills.  You won't find me going into a situation where I am greatly outnumbered because there is no point to it. I will pick my battles and I will maintain SA the whole time I'm in the air.

I would venture to say that your expert MA SA flyers would avoid a realistic setting arena like the plague because it would be too "boring" not to be able to fly into throngs of enemy fighters within 5 seconds of entering the arena.

[BigR]

I think the ICON system should be based on your personal knowlege of each plane. Everyone should be given a test before they log in maybe once a month. Where they have to ID types of planes based on unmarked drawings. Then based on your test score, you will be able to ID the planes that you recognized in the test, while still keeping the 1000 yard limit or whatever it is. That way maybe people will actually want to learn about the fighters.

Actually its a dumb idea for arena play. Nevermind I said anything.

[DamnedRen]

FOR AUCTION: One set of WW2 Airplane Silhouette Playing Cards.

And the bidding starts at......

[NoBaddy]

Originally posted by BigR

Actually its a dumb idea for arena play. Nevermind I said anything.

Ok...