Author Topic: hunter s. has left the building. (sigh)  (Read 2147 times)

Offline bustr

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hunter s. has left the building. (sigh)
« Reply #75 on: February 28, 2005, 03:07:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Yeah .... rpm nailed it.

As for the whole "everyone is creative" bent, well, yeah ... every human is capable of creative endeavors and thought.

But I know from the tech field that if you put 50 engineers in a room ... all people who "create" software ... there will be at most 2 who really have that bulb lit. These are the guys who have the idea that the others build. Who see the end of the path and over the next hill before the others are even walking on cobblestones.

If you look at art, music, and film ... how many rip-offs are there compared to how many originals? Sure, the imitators are "creating" music, movies, and paintings ... but their creations are themselves derivative. There is no new spark of life. And it's being able to ignite that spark from the ether that is what differentiates the true creative spirits amongst us.

Jimi Hendrix, Stanley Kubrick, Salvidor Dali, Albert Einstein ... creative geniuses. I don't know if I'd put HST in that company, but he would be welcome at their House, and they at his.


Dok,

Be carefull, by this definition it is almost advocating a superior class of human being to whom the rest of us less creative are supposed to....(recognise)(worship)(give special consideration)? Does this mean the rest of us do not have valuble and creative lives? All men are created equal, but some men are created more equal? Is this about those whom you are holding up to us as examples, or your frustration that you are not being recognised by those around you for your obvious above average talents?

When you have to tell people to respect another person because you are of the point of view that person is worthy of adulation, what happens to letting that persons work attract the praise on it's own merits? This thread almost crossed the line of telling the uninitiated that they are cultural and creative rubes for not recognising Mr. Thompson's contributions to the 100 literary great works of history.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline DoKGonZo

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hunter s. has left the building. (sigh)
« Reply #76 on: February 28, 2005, 03:46:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bustr
Dok,

Be carefull, by this definition it is almost advocating a superior class of human being to whom the rest of us less creative are supposed to....(recognise)(worship)(give special consideration)? Does this mean the rest of us do not have valuble and creative lives? All men are created equal, but some men are created more equal? ...


No ... you took it the wrong way. And slinging this back to the original drift, if you look at most of the people labeled as "genius" through history - most of them were terribly unhappy. And, as has been posted, many committed suicide. If you added in the number who drank (or drugged) themselves to death throughout history, the toll would be even worse.

I don't see an elite class here at all. I see nature's checks and balances at work. People with heightened creative drives are also burdened with depression and possibly a lack of the kind of fortitude needed to deal with their unhappiness.

One of the interesting comments I read in the wake of HST's demise was how he was always fascinated to talk to anyone who thougt his writing was any good. So many people thought he was a great writer, but it seemed like he could never enjoy or appreciate his own gift.

I wouldn't say such people need to be revered - but what they are capable of should be respected, and what they pay for that gift should be accepted.

Offline bustr

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hunter s. has left the building. (sigh)
« Reply #77 on: February 28, 2005, 04:38:58 PM »
Dok,

Cool, there was a bit of a slide. Yes history has taught us that those on the right hand extream of the IQ bell curve have given something up for the gift that keeps the rest of us sane. I have a nephew who ended up teaching his Calculus 101 class in college because he was bord and his teacher could not keep up with him.

He sees and communicates the world in math and gets impatient with his instructors. The DoD, Boeing, and a number of universities are trying to recruit him full time. I think he is at Penn state but wants to go into the private sector now. His biggest complaint is that people cannot keep up with him or understand him. Just means he either learns to live in this world or finds some nice institution that wants what he has and keeps him in toys.

Extream genius is not a survival trait. The human race would still have gotten here regardless if they had ever been born. Their contributions are incredable, but commiting suicied is not something to hold up to our children as a successful role model for life. The majority who will carry on our species fall to the middel of the bell cure and need help and guidence to carry this species on.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Nash

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hunter s. has left the building. (sigh)
« Reply #78 on: February 28, 2005, 05:14:03 PM »
Just an anecdote...

I got this extreme panic attack once while in NYC.... it came outta nowhere... right in the middle of Penn Station. I couldn't leave my apartment for over a week. I finally made an appointment with a psychiatrist. While taking my blood pressure etc., she asked me what I did. I told her, and she goes "Yup, 90% of the people I see with this are writers, producers, actors, etc."

Offline lazs2

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hunter s. has left the building. (sigh)
« Reply #79 on: March 01, 2005, 09:12:42 AM »
this is funny..  bustr nailed it... there now I have supported my position by using someone else... that make me creative too?

I never said everyone was creative I said that most people are creative in their own way.   I also agree that there is an IQ bell curve that may or may not have to do with being creative.

the deaf on, 88 believes that I am talking soley about suicide.  I believer that there are indeed reasons for suicide... just not hunters.   We went from an aching back to the fact that he is one of the elite creative people and therefore immune to normal human behavior... way too complex a man for MOST of us mortals to understand.

he came upon a clever way to put people down because he was a mean spirited druggie and when it was praised as being new and fresh he immediately begand to mass produce it and everything he ever wrote after that was the same.

the only "culture" that he is an icon too is the drug culture or the suicide culture.

Some of the best and brightest were druggies and drunks...  not all creative people deal with depression like hunter.  In fact... very few do..  the list 88 showed was very small in the sceme of things and some were not even suicides or... were probly justifieable.

oh... and so far as a tribute goes... I don't think it is ever a good idea to glosrify wussy suicide.

lazs