Author Topic: Bowling for Columbine on C4 at 11:05 tonight. (five star rating)  (Read 1708 times)

Offline beet1e

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Bowling for Columbine on C4 at 11:05 tonight. (five star rating)
« Reply #90 on: February 22, 2005, 05:38:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zulu7
Save us from the paranoia ;)
Yeah, it's worst amongst the "conservatives". I was flying home from Phoenix,AZ on Christmas Day, 2001 would you believe. And Sky Harbor airport was alive with military types carrying nasty looking weapons, rushing around from point to point, and scowling like nothing on earth. One passed by me, and I would have said "Merry Christmas", but feared I might get arrested - or shot! So we exchanged blank stares and that was that.

Creamo - you missed the winky in my last post.

Offline Creamo

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Bowling for Columbine on C4 at 11:05 tonight. (five star rating)
« Reply #91 on: February 22, 2005, 05:50:03 AM »
Ah, cc.

Offline OneWordAnswer

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Bowling for Columbine on C4 at 11:05 tonight. (five star rating)
« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2005, 07:22:16 AM »
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Originally posted by Creamo

No shame. Unbelievable.


British.

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2005, 07:30:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by OneWordAnswer
British.
Correct.


Offline midnight Target

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Bowling for Columbine on C4 at 11:05 tonight. (five star rating)
« Reply #94 on: February 22, 2005, 08:29:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by OneWordAnswer


Ripsnort^

Offline lazs2

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Bowling for Columbine on C4 at 11:05 tonight. (five star rating)
« Reply #95 on: February 22, 2005, 09:02:28 AM »
I kept waiting for him to go to a hollywood party and interview all the coke heads and drugies and ask them if they knew that that their drug habits and movie violence was causeing minorities to kill each other over drug turf and could they please stop.... maybe wheel in a poor crippled gangbanger who had been the victim of a driveby.


lazs

Offline lasersailor184

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Bowling for Columbine on C4 at 11:05 tonight. (five star rating)
« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2005, 09:39:06 AM »
HA!



Oh this thread is killing me.


Michael Moore does not make documentaries.  The basic definition of a documentary tells us that it isn't.

I guess you could call his movies entertainment.  I like to call them lies...
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Offline indy007

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Bowling for Columbine on C4 at 11:05 tonight. (five star rating)
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2005, 09:40:09 AM »
Bowling for Columbine was crap. It has more holes than some of you guy's underwear. The editting was sloppy and ill-concealed. He just tries to hide it with the sheer force of the message.

1) In the opening bank scene, it was staged. They don't keep guns in a bank. The guns are kept in a vault 4 hours away. The ones on the wall behind the clerk are models. He also left out the part where he spent at least 1/2 an hour in the bank undergoing an FBI background check. It just looks like he walks in, fills out a slip of paper, and walks out with a gun.

2) The hunting dog video isn't so much a re-enactment as a staged video. He uses tricks like adding time/date to the corners to make it look like a real home movie. Btw, anybody that dresses up their dog & gives it a gun... deserves a darwin award.

3) The "blind guy" shoots better than I do. 9/10 on qualifiying exams and 10/10 on the re-shoot. He's not totally blind.

4) The Lockheed plant is a very poor way to make a point.  The banner "IT HAS TO BE FOREIGN OBJECT FREE"? This is a gun-control flick, not lessons on how to run a factory. Moore doesn't even bother to defend the arguements he made here because it was filler that people try to hold up as some valid point, even when it doesn't make a coherent arguement.

5) He paraphrased the plaque, and didn't bother to actually say what was on it.

"B-52D Stratofortress. 'Diamond Lil.' Dedicated to the men and women of the Strategic Air Command who flew and maintained the B-52D throughout its 26-year history in the command. Aircraft 55-083, with over 15,000 flying hours, is one of two B-52Ds credited with a confirmed MIG kill during the Vietnam Conflict Flying out of U-Tapao Royal Thai Naval Airfield in southern Thailand, the crew of 'Diamond Lil' shot down a MIG northeast of Hanoi during 'Linebacker II' action on Christmas Eve, 1972."

that's a bit different than:

"The plaque underneath it proudly proclaims that this plane killed Vietnamese people on Christmas Eve 1972."

6) The "History of America" cartoon 1) was done in a style pretending to be Matt Stone & Trey Parker. It wasn't done by them. They do not like Moore & refused to work on the movie. It also tries to tie the KKK to the NRA. Check the dialog & look at the fast-talking. It says that the NRA was founded in 1871, "the same year that the Klan became an illegal terrorist organization." The Klan was actually founded in 1866 in TN by ex-confederates, and the NRA was founded in NY, in 1871, by former Union officers.

7) Heston's speech clip, used to demonize him, and shown as happening 10 days after Columbine, is actually from a year later in Charlotte. "My cold dead hands".

8) To argue that Canada is very ethnically diverse, compared to America, Moore shows 3 black people in Toronto. Woo! It's a regular old melting pot there, what, with that 3% black population.

9) The only way to come up with Moore's 11,127 deaths during the country comparison is to ignore the FBI's number's, use the National Center for Health's stat's, then, add in the figure for legally justified homicides. It's an intentional skewing of the numbers to make a point. I thought skewing the numbers in your own favor pretty much negates the point you were trying to make in the first place.

10) If the Wal-Mart scene were not faked, it was an illegal purchase of the ammunition.  You have to show a driver's license  Firearms Acquisition Certification. Now some of you say "whatever, he edited out him showing his ID".. well, the point of the scene is to show what an easy buy it is.

11) The Willie Horton ad was about the "revolving door" policy. It had little to do with racial profiling and fear mongering.

12) Interviewing the kids in Canada, listen to what they say. That's the exact things that sparked off Columbine to begin with.

13) Blaming the Kayle Rowland shooting on Dick Clark, because the mother worked at his grill for the work-to-welfare program.. seriously...

14) The second NRA meeting in Flint he holds up, was 8 months after the Columbine shooting. Bush & Gore were both in the area holding rallies. Moore himself had been in the area hosting rallies. Clever editing makes you think that the tragedy was used for a pro-gun rally, when it was actually a voting event.

15) The "Culture of Fear" author... he's holding up and supporting an author that criticizes sensationalized media when crime rates are falling... but isn't he criticising what Moore is actually doing?



All documentaries are slanted & biased. Some more than others. Bowling for Columbine just happens to be one of the worst.

As for cinematic value.. I wouldn't give it 5 stars. I'd give it a 3, being generous. The editing was sloppy and he does a poor job of making points. However, when you're preaching to your own choir, it's not hard to get a good score.

Offline beet1e

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« Reply #98 on: February 22, 2005, 10:38:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by indy007
All documentaries are slanted & biased. Some more than others. Bowling for Columbine just happens to be one of the worst.
So you do agree it's a documentary? :p

I agree, the Lockheed Martin scenes could have been left out.

I see there is mileage left in this topic yet!

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #99 on: February 22, 2005, 10:46:15 AM »
Soooooooo....

Staging a scene makes the film something other than a documentary?

I wonder how Disney's "Living Desert" would hold up to that scrutiny? Do you think all those animals just happened to walk into and out of the frame?

funny.

Offline indy007

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« Reply #100 on: February 22, 2005, 10:49:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
So you do agree it's a documentary? :p

I agree, the Lockheed Martin scenes could have been left out.

I see there is mileage left in this topic yet!


I'm not one of the people that disagree with it, and also shout it down as not being a documentary. I just think it's full of crap :)

Offline JB88

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Bowling for Columbine on C4 at 11:05 tonight. (five star rating)
« Reply #101 on: February 22, 2005, 10:56:32 AM »
i've always thought of micheal moore as the guy who boils the water a bit too hot for the tea to be sipped.  

dramatic?  yes.

contrived?  yes.

but the fundemental point of his work remains.  where few were willing to go...he did.

its parts where he does the creative editing or goes into the self righteous extravaganzas that pull it down for me...usually towards the end of his films.

id give it a 3 based upon the annoy factor and a 4 based upon the factuality factor.

obviously he is framing.  i just dont happen to find that part all too enlightening.

roger and me?  too long.  still groundbreaking.  3 stars
columbine?  mmm.  a bit spread out.  but there were certainly interesting parts.  3 1/2
farenheit 911. - could have been much better with someone a little less whiney on the other end of the microphone...but its still always nice to know that SOMEBODY is asking questions and posting opinions.  

he's alright.

the fact that he ticks so many people off probably indicates that hes pretty close to the mark somewhere.

but i wouldnt expect them to change.
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Offline Steve

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Bowling for Columbine on C4 at 11:05 tonight. (five star rating)
« Reply #102 on: February 22, 2005, 01:22:26 PM »
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wonder how Disney's "Living Desert" would hold up to that scrutiny?


That was a great film.  I remember watching it as a kid... mesmerized.
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