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Author Topic: The Berlin Wall has fallen. We can see it."  (Read 1143 times)

Offline Zulu7

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The Berlin Wall has fallen. We can see it."
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2005, 07:32:55 AM »
As I said I don't know, but my natural reaction is to avoid war. The more I read and learn about it the more I think that war is not a real solution.
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Offline oboe

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The Berlin Wall has fallen. We can see it."
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2005, 08:16:13 AM »
Perhaps there was a middle ground course of action available, somwhere between continued economic sanctions and the basically unilateral invasion by the US, against a country that had little if anything to do with 9/11.

btw, where is Osama Bin Laden?   Remember him?
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Offline Krusher

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« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2005, 08:45:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
cough cough theocracy....



you wish LOL


theocracy =   a political unit governed by a deity (or by officials thought to be divinely guided)

democracy = Derived from two ancient Greek words demos (the people) and kratos (strength). A system of government in which governance of the people is by elected representatives.
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Offline NUKE

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The Berlin Wall has fallen. We can see it."
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2005, 08:51:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zulu7
As I said I don't know, but my natural reaction is to avoid war. The more I read and learn about it the more I think that war is not a real solution.


Yeah, it's a fake solution.
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Offline Zulu7

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« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2005, 09:06:13 AM »
Nope wrong there Nuke. Its a devastating one only to be used in last resort.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2005, 09:46:54 AM »
zulu... sanctions were killing millions.   The war will end.  but... what would you suggest that should have been done?   It is all fine to say that "something" else should have been done but...

The greatest minds before the war came up with solutions that were worse than war... but then... maybe you have a plan?

lazs
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Offline Zulu7

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« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2005, 09:50:34 AM »
Lazs I don't know but I'm not  a world leader. Maybe just isolating iraq. Making sure that Saddam couldn't de stabilise the region. Using more covert operations to destabilise his Govt, using brains rather than brawn. if The CIA are so good why didn't they achieve that? Rather than go in guns blazing killing a lot of innocent people aznd making enemies in the region for both our nations.

No answer just a question.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2005, 10:04:07 AM »
so... how do you do that?  we tried and all we got was the UN making money of the sadman killing and torturing thousands a month..  that is your idea of a better solution to war?

It is easy to say we should have tried something else until someone calls yu on it.

lazs
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Offline Raider179

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« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2005, 10:11:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusher
you wish LOL


theocracy =   a political unit governed by a deity (or by officials thought to be divinely guided)

democracy = Derived from two ancient Greek words demos (the people) and kratos (strength). A system of government in which governance of the people is by elected representatives.


You do know that Iran is a theocratic republic right? They govern based on Islamic law. That is the idea behind (or by officials thought to be divinely guided). That is also probably what will emerge in Iraq.
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Offline Zulu7

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The Berlin Wall has fallen. We can see it."
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2005, 10:14:40 AM »
I think in the case of somewhere like Bosnia. We probably should have gone to War. Certainly a kind of "if you commit one more atrocity whoever you are,  serb, muslim or croat, you will be at war with us " kind of thing. The same for Ruanda. I think in both those situations there was little other way. The shooting and massacres were already going on.

I don't think I raq was the same. The situation was more complex. Its my personal opinion and maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think the war was the right move. I think it was started because GW had an obsession with it. Not for any strategic or humanitarian benefit. The other stuff was tacked on to try and justify his and Blairs actions.

And what of the war on Terror. Most of the 911 terrorists were Saudi. A country with bad human rights record and definately not a democracy. What is Bush doing about that? Sweet FA because its all about money. There was no economic benefit in Bosnia. Nor in Ruanda. but there is in the middle east so we put up with govts like Saudi and go to war on the Iraqis. Its hypocracy and just plain wrong. Bush foreign policy is a mess and ours is going down the same tube. we have secret services. I'm sure they could have worked from the inside to bring down Saddam.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2005, 10:31:22 AM »
soooo... what would you have done?  And..... if it was hyupocracy to pick one torturing. murdering genocide Ahole out and finish his gold toilet seat sitting butt off...

Then why was bosnia a good thing when guys like the sadman and the congo were happening?  because it was in youropes interest?

you are right.. I do see hypocracy here.

lazs
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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2005, 11:14:12 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zulu7
Lazs I don't know but I'm not  a world leader. Maybe just isolating iraq. Making sure that Saddam couldn't de stabilise the region. Using more covert operations to destabilise his Govt, using brains rather than brawn. if The CIA are so good why didn't they achieve that? Rather than go in guns blazing killing a lot of innocent people aznd making enemies in the region for both our nations.

No answer just a question.


Hmm wasnt that idea tried in  North Korea?

Dunno bout you but Im somewhat less then satisfied with the results.

And for isolating it to work you would have to get everyone to co operate in isolating it.
Which is now obvious in Iraq wasnt happening or going to happen.
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2005, 11:27:21 AM »
Egyptian President Says He Will Push Multiparty Elections

Quote
ROME, Feb. 26 -- Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, under pressure at home and abroad to democratize, said Saturday that he would ask his country's parliament to change the constitution and permit multiparty popular elections



Afghanistand Voters Queue





Iraq Voters




:aok
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Offline NUKE

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« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2005, 11:29:19 AM »
And Palestinians too.
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Offline Krusher

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« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2005, 09:03:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
You do know that Iran is a theocratic republic right? They govern based on Islamic law. That is the idea behind (or by officials thought to be divinely guided). That is also probably what will emerge in Iraq.



hahahahahahahaha
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