Japanese Defence Force in Iraq

[Toad]

What strikes me is the "preparedness" of the West to fight.

The Pentagon data shows that 708,000 of the troops who have served in war come from the active duty force. That means that roughly half of the United States' 1.4 million active duty troops have gone to war. Slightly more than 245,000 troops from reserve and National Guard units have also been deployed.

The Pentagon, through all political administrations has clearly stated that the US is ready to fight two conflicts simultaneously. Recently of Chairman of the Joint Chiefs said we still could.

Under Defense Department doctrine, the military must be able to simultaneously fight and swiftly defeat two enemies in two different parts of the world. One of those conflicts can be an enduring one, such as Iraq. "We can still do that," Myers insisted.

I seriously doubt that he is correct.

Beyond that, what Western country is ready to go to war? From what we're reading, deploying 1000 troops for any length of time is a major difficulty for almost all of the countries.

Doesn't say much for preparedness. Sounds like 1939 in fact. Weakness tempts the bad guys, I think.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by Scherf
Actually Bluedog, you've pretty much got it. It is a clever ruse, and a pretty cynical one at that (Trade Representatives indeed...) about which many Japanese feel upset.

Just as you've pointed out, many folks in Japan would stress that their constitution is rigid in this regard and cannot be altered, and that they should not be allowed to send anyone at all. After all, as you say, engineers are still soldiers, and are indeed a military force.

The government (well, the Liberal Democratic Party, which contains some pretty ancient and powerful hawks), is pushing for a greater international role for Japan, including a seat on the UN Security Council. The presence in Iraq of SDF personnel is one manifestation of that push. They've pushed the SDF into Iraq over the very deep objections of many ordinary Japanese - the very worst thing which could happen, including for the hawks, is for the JDF personnel to become involved in gunfights.



"This is black."

"No, no, it's white."

"Come off it, it's clearly black."

"No, we passed an administrative order which states that, in certain special cases, this will be designated white. This is one such case."




"It's still black though."

Exactly correct.  One point though, the Japanese in Iraq CAN use weapons to defend themselves, but only in certain conditions.  Basically (and it really stretches all the definitions of all the terms invovled), since they consider those people to be part of a muti-national force, the areas occupied by them and assigned to them to work in are part of Japan, consider it a roving Japanese Embassy.  Its not.  But politics often becomes the world of make believe.  

Even 5 years ago the voices in Japan that wanted to change their Constitution were very few and not very loud.  N. Korea helped change that, and while change may not happen soon or easily (if at all), I would bet we will see a vote on it before too many years pass.  Besides N. Korea's threat, Japan really does want that seat on the Security Council, and they cant have it the way things are now.

[Rolex]

And you are right, Bluedog, about why they are even there at all, since the deployment already seems to violate the constitution.

When it comes to understanding Japanese politics, I find it's easier if I suspend all common sense. The 'it's black, no it's white' thing is done with no shame or embarrassment.

[Glasses]

I think  Japanese  foreign policy can be seen in most  Off the Shelf Anime series... They have no point, they are silly and are fun to watch, if you're a stoner, not me though it hurts when I try to understand it. So I just  stare in awe an amazement , as to what genious can be done from such people in a completely incoherent sense, sort of like this post .  

So just get ready SF when the Mecha come it'll be a world to pay  MAJINGA ZETTO!

[Scherf]

Thanks for that Star.

I'd been mulling over my reply last night, and was thinking to myself that what I really meant was: "The official line is that Japan doesn't really have an army, that these guys aren't really soldiers, and they're not really part of a military coalition. The only thing which would complete the picture would be if they were considered to be 'Not really outside Japan.' "

Truth is stranger than fiction, I guess.

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by Bluedog
I know where you're coming from Tronski, I struggled with that whole concept myself, more than one member of my family died by Japanese hands, and not all of them in combat.
No doubt most of the young blokes they are sending over have similar family histories, and if they themselves have no problem with it, then I cant see that I have a right to.

I think that the right to be angry at, or hate the Japanese for what they did, belongs to those old Diggers you spoke of, and will die completely with the last of them when they pass.
They earned that right with their blood, for us to assume it and continue, would be to cheapen their efforts and sacrifices.

A Milne Bay veteran once said to me  "I will never forgive them, or forget what they did, but you son, you should forgive them, and remember us, we fought to stop the war, not continue it. I have the right to hate, I earned it in New Guinea, you young blokes have a right to the freedom we bought for you, dont waste it on hate, it was too expensive for that"
It made me feel ashamed when he said that, and I have never forgotten it, and never will.
I think he was a very wise man.


BTW, I had no idea Japan had sent troops to Timor, I would have thought it would be one of the places that they were less than wellcome in a military sense.

Yeah your pretty spot on mate...I have so much respect for those blokes, I should always remember to also respect why they went through those things as well.

A mate at work is ex-army and was in East timor (with 2RAR i think), and we spoke at length abou this new Iraq deployment. He said that there were Japanese engineers in Timor...I also remarked that considering ET was occupied by the Japanese the locals wouldn't have too happy, but he said they hated the indonesians more!

 Tronsky