Author Topic: Question to Finns  (Read 25614 times)

Offline Staga

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Question to Finns
« Reply #915 on: March 30, 2005, 05:23:45 PM »
Raven; few years ago my friend flew back from Greece with private Jet after his leg was almost ripped away and his intestines were mushed in motorbike crash.
Insurance company thought it would be cheaper for them to fly him back to Finland with a private Jet (something like ~40000$ IIRC) than let doctors operate him at there.
Propably same case with Russia; I don't think insurance companies like to pay hundreds of thousands after loss of life in some Russain hospital when they can bring patient back to Finland to get first-rate attendance and live after that.

Offline Raven_2

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Question to Finns
« Reply #916 on: March 30, 2005, 05:33:00 PM »
Some socialistic propaganda for you, guys :-)

http://www.newyouth.com/interestingstats.asp

Quote

People in the Eastern bloc in 1989 were promised a better deal under capitalism but five years later the living standards have been cut by 40 or 50 percent.


A sad fact...

Quote

America now has the highest inequality of income in the industrialized world. In 1940 we had the least disparity of wealth with CEOs making about 12 times that of their average worker. Now it is 180 times as much. So this as seen CEO salaries increase 500% since 1980 while wage earners salaries have dropped 5%.

The United States is tied with Guatemala in having the richest and poorest 20% of the population.

The 3 richest people in the US have a combined wealth equal to more than 115 million ordinary working class Americans.

The world's 358 billionaires have more assets than the combined incomes of countries representing nearly half - 45 per cent - of the planet's population.

Over the last 15 years the amount of American billionaires have increased 1300%, the limit needed to be listed in the Forbes 400 has increased 500% and those in the $120,000 income bracket has increased by 25%.

2/3 of working Americans make less in purchasing power than they did in 1979.

In 1980 the top managers of the top 300 US companies had income 29 times larger than that of a manufacturing worker, by 1990 the same companies had a 93 times greater income.


About freedom and equality. Is there freedom without equality? If some moneybag wanna start a war - does your opinion change something? There were lot anti-Iraq demonstrations both in USA and (especcialy) England. Does they change something? No. Why? Cause people are not equal - and, therefore, some of them gain much more freedom then others. You have freedom to earn money and save or spent them - and that is only "freedom" capitalism gives to you.

Offline Toad

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Question to Finns
« Reply #917 on: March 30, 2005, 05:34:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda
Toad, the one who shot off it's wingtip was  one Su-15, then another shot a wingtip again ("target divided" and this wreck looked like a bomb or cruise missile, so a BVR missile was shot at it). Then a third Su flown by Keferov found the Boeing again (first pair RTBed because they were low on fuel) and forced it to land at the lake. 707 was making attempts to leave Soviet airspace (so they knew where they are).
[/b]

Are you talking about KAL 902? The 707 at Murmansk? The target didn't "divide". Look at the photo; one missile hit out near the wingtip.

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They made confessions, there was a trial and they were released as a sign of good will from Soviet side. There must have been an ICAO investigation too.
[/b]

Yes, they signed confessions saying what they HAD to say to be release. If they didn't sign, no release. I'm sure there was a trial. The Soviets were FAMOUS for rigged trials.

There was an ICAO investigation, but since the Soviets NEVER released the FDR there's no "absolute" answer.

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Years later the Soviets released a map (almost certainly based on analysis of flight recorder data) which showed that the aircraft had begun a wide right turn soon after reaching Iceland on its Amsterdam to Anchorage over-the-pole route.

Such a turn was too gradual to occur manually, and the on-board guidance equipment would have equally been unable to match it deliberately, so a plausible explanation involved a drift in the aircraft's inertial platform or the manual keyboard entry of an incorrect correction factor for Earth's rotation (the apparent path would have been followed if the sign of the correction factor had been reversed).

 

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UberFinns recorded no transmittions from Soviet side?! :lol Toad, you are so funny in believing nonsence someone feeds you!

Anyway, was it possible for Finns to record Soviet ground control transmittions? I doubt it. Koreans were at 9000m, so both Soviet and Finnish side could communicate with them w/o hearing each other. I am not a  specialist.


True, you are not a specialist.

Think of this. Your fighters are required by ICAO to broadcast on 121.5. They DID NOT. Because if the Finns could record KAL, they could record a fighter near him as well.

Quote

His calls on 121.5 were recorded by a Finnish air traffic control tower at Rovaniemi, which also noted the lack of any Soviet calls
on the same frequency.


And, from personal experience, this is a true fact. They didn't hear any Soviet calls on 121.5, from Soviet air or ground units.

Quote
American intelligence units in Europe had been able to eavesdrop on the Soviet air-to-ground communications as they occurred via some new high-tech eavesdropping facilities, according to a recent book by Seymour Hersh.





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They were able to intercept KAL007 over Kamchatka, but they thought it was a weekly American RC-135 excercise and didn't bother because usually they ran away before interceptors could get them.


First, we never "ran away" from you guys. The Chinese and North Koreans, yes... when they turned towards us, we turned away. However, that was not doctrine for Soviet fighters. We maintained track and watched your fighters comically try to fly formation with us.

Second: They didn't intercept KAL 007 over Kamchatka... they got low on fuel before they could. Otherwise, it would have been shot down over Kamchatka.

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At 5:33 A.M., local time, Track 6065 entered Soviet airspace and thus became an intruder, targeted for destruction by Andropov’s inflexible new border-defense law.
As KE007 crossed the Kamchatka coastline, at least four Soviet fighters scrambled to intercept it. Then, low on fuel, they were forced back to base while KE007 was still being tracked by Kamchatka radar.

Illesh explains this embarrassing lapse: after 1976, when Lieutenant Viktor Belenko defected to Japan with a MIG-25, "they began to fuel the aircraft in such a fashion that a Soviet pilot would not have enough fuel . . . to reach the nearest foreign airfield." :rofl

Her crew still unaware that anything was amiss, KE007 flew over Kamchatka and on out to sea, and faded from the radar screens. Mortified, the people on duty at the Kamchatka command center informed their opposite numbers on Sakhalin Island, on the other side of the Sea of Okhotsk, that an intruder "provisionally identified as an RC-135" was headed their way.


It almost got away, didn't it?
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As the fighter positions itself to fire, Kornukov worries that KE007 may escape. "Oh, ****. He is already getting out into neutral waters. Engage afterburner immediately. Bring in the MIG-23 as well. While you are wasting time, it will fly right out."


Quote
BTW, it could be a good idea to make a missile ambush for that RC-135, but noone bothered.
[/b]

They didn't bother because no RC-135 was in Soviet airspace.
 

BTW, I never heard of "Drop Shot" and the only web references are to one book. Got a link?



Quote
Check the dates please.
[/b]


Your Ballistic Missile subs were first launched in 1956.

Class Name Missile Entered Service NATO Designation
611 AB  R-11FM 1956 ZULU V
629  R-13 1960 GOLF I
629 A  R-21 1963 GOLF II
658  R-13 1960 HOTEL I
      R-21 1963 HOTEL II
667 A Navaga R-27 1968 YANKEE I

Strategic Rocket Forces? Soviets built THE WORLD'S FIRST ONES!  Now why would you be the FIRST to build an ICBM capable of carrying a nuke? Unless you wanted to burn OUR cities?

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The Korolev design bureau’s R-7/SS-6 Sapwood was the world’s first intercontinental. Though R-7s were never widely deployed, the launch systems became the basis for the most successful satellite launch booster in the world.

The parameters of the R-7 were first outlined in a Soviet governmental order from February 13, 1953 that called for the development of a two-stage ballistic missile with a range of 8000 km with a payload carry of 3,000 kg and a gross liftoff weight of 170 tons.



Bombers? Soviets had "one-way"  nuke carrying TU-4A's deployed in 1952. Only possible plan was to burn our cities with nukes.

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Immediately after initial serial production of the Tu-4 began, work started to adapt the bomber to strike at American territory. Some airplanes were outfitted to carry nuclear bombs and were designated as TU-4A.

During re-equipment, the bomber was outfitted with a thermostatically controlled heated bomb bay, a suspension unit for the bomb was developed, and biological protection devices for the crew were supplied. Some TU-4 bombers were equipped with aerial refueling devices, and scant few were outfitted with additional fuel tanks located under the wings.

They were deployed in 1952, though the majority of the TU-4s were not re-equipped with air refueling. Although the limited range of the Tu-4 rendered it incapable of striking the United States and subsequently returning to bases in the Soviet Union, neither country was a stranger to one-way strategic bombardment missions, given the precedent of the FRANTIC operations in World War II.



Pretend you didn't plan for and participate in MAD if you like. The truth is you had most of that stuff either before or at the same time we did. Denying Soviet MAD plans is just another one of your self-deceptions, just like Katyn, KAL 902, KAL 007 and all the rest.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2005, 08:22:31 PM by Toad »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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Question to Finns
« Reply #918 on: March 30, 2005, 05:38:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raven_2
Sure, World Health Organization lied to whole world  


This guy is as good as Boroda! :rofl
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Raven_2

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Question to Finns
« Reply #919 on: March 30, 2005, 05:38:56 PM »
to Staga

>>few years ago my friend flew back from Greece with private Jet after his leg was almost ripped away and his intestines were mushed in motorbike crash.

Bah. There are German, France and Sweden near, why they transport them into Finland, then? Finish medical system are ordinary and worse that in biggest EU countries, AFAIK.

Maybe, his last will was to die at homeland? :-)

Offline Raven_2

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Question to Finns
« Reply #920 on: March 30, 2005, 05:42:47 PM »
to Toad

>>This guy is as good as Boroda!

It was scepticism, Toad. Sciaf said, that WHO lied to whole world and deathrate in USSR was higher. There is no smiley for scepticism, you know :-)

According to WHO, USSR healthcare system and stats were one of the best in the world (and best during 1960-1970, AFAIR).

Offline fd ski

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Question to Finns
« Reply #921 on: March 30, 2005, 05:46:20 PM »
Raven 2, how old are you ?

Somehow i think your discribing USSR from books and stories rather then personal experiance.

Some of us here remember standing in lines for hours to get bread, and having to bribe a nurse at the "free" hospital to have a bedpan taken away from our family, that **** wasn't nearly as rosy as most people remember it.

Offline Raven_2

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Question to Finns
« Reply #922 on: March 30, 2005, 06:20:42 PM »
fd ski

>>Raven 2, how old are you ?

21. If you think that USSR cease to exist in 1991, you mistaken :-) We live in soviet time up to 1993 here :-) And my parents/grandparents live in it and tell me about it truly enough, I suppose.

>>Some of us here remember standing in lines for hours to get bread

Here, at Vladivostok, the only "line" my father can remember was for vodka :-) in 1989 (AFAI Remember), in couple of days after Gorbachev "dry law" was canceled. His brother was returned from army and he stand in queue for vodka ~1 hour :-)

>>Some of us here remember standing in lines for hours to get bread

About what time period you speak?

Well, you think that it was caused by USSR occupation 1945-1989 (or 1981?)? But you away from USSR 16 years ago - still Poland one of the poorest countries in EU. Why?

BTW, Poland was socialistic country only from 1976, according to your constitution.

And soviet people treat Poland not like ordinary soviet country.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2005, 06:25:19 PM by Raven_2 »

Offline Skydancer

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Question to Finns
« Reply #923 on: March 30, 2005, 08:31:31 PM »
922 and counting!

Offline MiloMorai

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Question to Finns
« Reply #924 on: March 30, 2005, 08:44:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raven_2
to MiloMorai

You xenophobic brainwashed idiot that have a lot of stereotypes and propaganda inside his head.
 


:D :D :D

Considering the universe size quantity you have, mine are nothing but the size of an electron.:rofl

Offline Raven_2

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Question to Finns
« Reply #925 on: March 30, 2005, 09:09:55 PM »
to all europians in this thread

Ever heard of Zbignev Bzejinski? Ex-assistant of USA president for national security. I now read his book "Great chess board". Well, maybe it would a news for you, but he thinks that whole Europe and Japan are already parts of USA empire. They call you "USA vassals". It`s an official politic of USA government.



Grey are for "Areas of USA political influence". Dark for "Areas of USA geopolitical domination".

Still thinks that all that time they "defend" you "from soviet threat"?

I`d try to find this in english.

Offline Toad

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Question to Finns
« Reply #926 on: March 30, 2005, 09:41:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer
922 and counting!


Wow.... this is what everyone liked about Zulu7.

Just can't help yourself can you?


If this thread/subject can only engender pointless posts from you, why do you read it?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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Question to Finns
« Reply #927 on: March 30, 2005, 09:50:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raven_2
Well, maybe it would a news for you, but he thinks that whole Europe and Japan are already parts of USA empire. They call you "USA vassals". It`s an official politic of USA government.

 


Getting desperate, aren't you?

Well, maybe it would be a news for you but the whole of Europe and Japan realize that we would never treat them the way the Soviet Union treated Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, East Germany, Poland, Albania, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Latvia, Afghanistan and Lithuania.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Raven_2

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Question to Finns
« Reply #928 on: March 30, 2005, 10:07:31 PM »
to Toad

>>Well, maybe it would be a news for you but the whole of Europe and Japan realize that we would never treat them the way the Soviet Union treated Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, East Germany, Poland, Albania, Czechoslovakia, Estonia, Latvia, Afghanistan and Lithuania.

So, they just chose the master, who feed them better?

So, by defending Europe you just defend your own property?

And what about "democracy" and "freedom" that USA claim at every corner? Can you give Europe a freedom to not be the part of USA?

Offline Toad

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« Reply #929 on: March 30, 2005, 10:11:53 PM »
:rofl

Yeah, ask the Euros if they feel like the US rules their countries.

Especially ask the French. :rofl

Give it up man, you look ever more pathetic with each post.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!