A training technique that U should use

[Daniko]

This is a training technique i've used with many "Ace" pilots, and it has served me well in developing my sense of timing, deflection shooting etc. AS WELL as defense. With Warbirds we flew H2H alot, but now in the training arena here u can utilize the 109f, 109g2, or the 205 ideally because of the pee shooters.  The simplest part of this training is that pee shooters are all u fire.  That is the two 7.7mm machine guns.  It takes a buttload of them to do any damage which allows you to set up a merge situation and then engage each other repeatedly without having to replane.  You can set up rules like only firing from the six position which is a good one for learning the real elements to ACM.  If i'm helping someone learn i will often put them on my six and ask them to follow me, put them on my 12 and tell them to lose me etc.  This is only 1 element of training and you must be aware that in a BATTLE with several planes the tactics are expanded to include much great Situational Awareness.  But if you have the underlying skills, and then develop that sense of when to use them and when to simply spiral climb your way out of danger your on your way to becoming an excellent pilot.  
Daniko

[Saintaw]

Spiral Climb ?
I like the sound of that word, please explain...
(I understand the bit "piral" & "climb", but I need a little more detail on Why, How, When, etc...)

Thank you in advance!

------------------
Saw/Saintaw
BISHOP'S FINEST FLYING BRICK
 
186th  Wardogs (Falcon4 Squad)
 http://www.wardogs.org/
"Firepower Mate, that is what separates the men from the boys..."

[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 02-17-2000).]

[Sorrow[S=A]]

This is a standard in the 109's bag of goodies, It is basically a climb, just above stall speed. you keep on a slight bank so you "spiral" up. This means to follow you the chaser needs to fly a farther path and climb faster than you to catch you. Works just about any remotly co-e situation as long as they are not in a position to cut the corner and take a snapshot at you.

------------------
If your in range, so is the enemy.

[Hristo]

You are right, Sorrow, about the nature of spiral climb from the pursued plane perspective.

However, the chaser does not fly the longer path. Neither does it have to climb faster, at least not in initial phase. Smart follower can negate spiral climb very long too.

Spiral climb capitalizes on opponents greed and his try to do a lead turn from pure pursuit.

It works best in good climbers, but it can work in any other plane, depending on the initial situation.

For example, you are in good climber, followed by a poorer climber. One of the options is the spiral climb (surely not the safest one).

The first thing I'd do is to bleed speed to best sustained climb speed for my plane. Now I slowly start right hand climb (since left hand torque will make it harder for the pursuer). I bank just a little, add rudder to negate the side slip and wait, watching the opponent reaction.

At first, opponent will gain because he will cut corner. Smarter opponents will beat spiral climb by choosing the flight path way in front of you, at point where your spiral will take you later. They climb with no banking and can be even more effective against your climb. A snapshot can ruin your day. Even if they miss, the can Immelmann and lead turn your spiral again.

However, the opponent who goes for dead 6 approach in spiral climb is likely to get himself rope-a-doped. At one point he will have to bank more than you and his AoA will also have to be higher. There goes his sustained climb, he will have to nose down to pick up speed and come again. It is important that you don't make the same mistake, always climb at best sustained climb speed and never lose it.

Little by little you can gain angles and alt this way. Once started, spiral climb can rarely be stopped. When you see the opponent at your 3-9 line and lower, you know you are getting on offensive now. Now it is question of timing. Usually it ends in nose high turn and hammerhead/wingover at low and slow enemy.


However, I think Daniko used expression spiral climb as a figure of speech, rather than he ment this particular technique is advisable against multiple opponents.

Spiral climb is not an easy technique and it is almost impossible to do against multiple enemies.

[Daniko]

I will explain a situation where i might spiral climb my way out of danger.  If I have a bogey d1-3 on my six with slightly less e than myself (a situation that often happens when i've spoiled an attack), and there are surrounding bogeys all with less altitude, or less energy, i am not going to turn and re-engage because the nature of fighting will induce some loss of energy and even if I get the kill i will become much more vulnerable to the surrounding fighters.  I will spiral climb until my relative energy state is high enough that i am safe before i plan another attack.  This is more of a tactic for a good climber yes, but like Hristo says, depending on the situation it can be usefull for any aircraft.  Another reason i'm in this situation fairly often is that i follow the rule of attacking only the most potent threat to myself which is usually the highest aircraft.  However speed and position do help determine my attack.  If i have 1 bogey low, coming up from the direction of an enemy base, and there are 4 bogeys co-alt or a little below me in the direction of my own base, i'm not going to jump the low bogey even if it will be an easy kill.  I will look for an opportunity to get a kill, while headed in a friendly direction, and i will keep my speed up to avoid becoming a target.

daniko

[Spatula]

Spiral climbs, i used to use em in the offline play in brand W, works a treat, just spiral up then once ya got enough sep to turn over and line em up they're easy pickings (not that drones are much of a challenge). But, i find this tactic always gets me reduced to a pile a scrap in AH  
I think i mis-judge the E state of the bogie, he has reasonable speed and i start the spiral he just points his nose up at me and i'm dead. I guess the only plane to do this effectively is the 109s (G series would be best).
whats the trick when you do the spiral, do you turn so your on the edge of stall the whole way up or just a litle bit off (ie no audible stall sound). I use the rudder to help.
I ride the stall horn all the way up. Maybe that and mis-judging E is what gets me spanked everytime  

Also, does any use the forward tumble move in the 109. Full left rudder, full left stick, and you kinda tumble. Apparently it was used to good effect in real life. Can you do it in other planes?

Also, this maybe a different topic but anyways: is a chandelle the reversal of choice in a 109  if you have a co-E con about D 3 behind you following you? I can never get the nose round in time and die.

I would like to learn to fly 109 but i find it so hard to fly   I normally give up a go chalk up kills in me trusty spit   but it has taught me bad habits  

Enuf rambling from me...

 

------------------
Overlord Spatula,
1st Airborne Kitchen Utensil Assault Group

"... 10 Me-109s out of the sun..." Aces High, Iron Maiden.