Author Topic: P-38 Itsy Bitsy II hand graphic (Read 1317 times)

oboe · « **on:** March 04, 2005, 10:09:26 PM »

Guys here is the decal sheet I went from when creatign the hand graphic for Itsy Bitsy II:

You can see the middle finger clearly extended and the index finger folded under the thumb. This gesture makes no sense given the direction of the palm facing outward however.

Cobra's suggestion that it should be the index finger extended instead makes sense, and Machnix's idea that it should show both index finger and thumb extended, indicating a small distance makes even more sense, considering the name of the a/c.

I just don't know how a decal maker could get so far off!

Kev367th · « **Reply #1 on:** March 04, 2005, 10:36:45 PM »

Nope still can't see the index finger under thumb.
Still looks to me like a '#1" gesture.

Shane · « **Reply #2 on:** March 04, 2005, 10:42:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kev367th
Nope still can't see the index finger under thumb.
Still looks to me like a '#1" gesture.

you need either:

a) glasses
b) a better monitor
c) both of the above

i had the kit/decals in question, it's clearly a bird flippin' gesture.

oboe · « **Reply #3 on:** March 04, 2005, 10:53:02 PM »

I think Kev is just trying to help me feel OK about keeping the change from middle finger to index finger.

I zoomed in out it several times and Shane is right, though I do hold it possibel that the decal maker was simply in error.

thebest1 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 04, 2005, 11:44:42 PM »

it would be funny if yourput a black censored rectangle over it lol

mason22 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 05, 2005, 12:53:55 AM »

make it a peace sign. ie #2

Guppy35 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 05, 2005, 12:59:04 AM »

Sorry for not showing up earlier. Worked a long night.

Going to do a quick history lesson on what I think is behind the hand on Laven's bird.

As part of their training program the RAF used a cartoon pilot called Percy Prune, in a series of cartoons emphasizing safety in their monthly Tee Emm publications. If it could go wrong, Prune did it. He suffered from what was known in the RAF as "Finger Trouble.

The below is from a wartime copy of "Prune's Progress given me by an old Spit driver. Note the open hand and the 1 finger salute on both sides..

Now the USAAF gets involved and takes it a step further, refering to the "Rigid Digit" Again it's referencing "finger trouble" for pilots who screw up etc. The 91st Bomb Group went so far as to have a medal made up to award people for mistakes, called "The Order of the Rigid Digit"

Image below is the 91st CO Colonel Stanley Wray, giving the rigid digit salute. Note again the open hand facing the camera and now the move to the middle finger. Not an obscene gesture, but the USAAF version of "Finger Trouble"

This is the photo the decals etc are based on. It's the only one I've seen of the entire plane. I don't know and I don't think anyone else knows for sure if the hand was on the right side. As he'd been around the block in the USAAF by that time in 45 it makes sense based on the open hand facing out that he's giving the 'rigid digit' salute to any other pilot as based on Laven's reputation there were none better then he, at least according to Laven

Needless to say I'd be of the opinion it isn't something that should have been rejected, but that's just me.

Dan

Shane · « **Reply #7 on:** March 05, 2005, 01:37:08 AM »

as usual, dan's da man...

maybe HTC will reconsider given the context...

Guppy35 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 05, 2005, 01:51:30 AM »

More on "Finger Trouble" and the "Rigid Digit"

Image from Tee Emm showing a monthly award for "The Most Highly Derogatory Order of the Irremovable Finger"

And below that an actual Order of the Rigid Digit medal. Note the image on the medal. Looks a lot like what's on Laven's bird.

General's Eaker, Spaatz and Doolittle all won the award at some point and it was apparently highly sought after, even postwar.

Dan

sullie363 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 05, 2005, 02:10:44 AM »

Wow, this is totally hilarious. Oh my, what will HTC do.

roflmao

Let Itsy Bitsy fly!

oboe · « **Reply #10 on:** March 05, 2005, 08:03:50 AM »

Oh my Gosh. I am in absolute awe of the depth of Dan's knowledge and resources - that he could step in here and clear this up so well is nothing short of amazing. Thank you, sir, and a big to you.

Given all that evidence, it does seem plain now that Laven was displaying the "rigid digit" salute, but was he letting other pilots know they were screw ups, or was he displaying an award that he himself might have received? In any case, it's quite different from the common "FU" bird and perfectly explains the palms-out orientation of the hand.

If you read Dan's mini bio on George Laven in the "Objectionable Skin" discussion thread, you'll learn more about this fascinating pilot. Laven's nephew, who had frequent contact with him during his life, told me that Laven once totalled a DeLorean sportscar in a 150 mph crash, walked away and went straight out and bought another one! He flew jets into his 70s and after he gave up flying, his health went downhill rapidly - I think he died in the late 1980s.

Thanks all who contributed to this thread.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 05, 2005, 12:42:58 PM »

I wonder if this will get Itsy Bitsy II in the door? It's really a great looking skin and definately a one of a kind for a 38

Dan

oboe · « **Reply #12 on:** March 05, 2005, 01:42:52 PM »

I hope so, but perhaps Skuzzy feels he made the decision and that settled it, without regard to the new info.

Personally I'm very glad it wasn't the 'bird'. Based on the photo you provided I'd have some additional work to do - it wasn't clear to me from my sources that the name on the nacelle curved upward so prominently.