Discussion about objectionable skins

[Cobra412]

Oboe the one model plane I found isn't super definitive about the middle finger.  Because of the angle and the shadow area on the palm it looks as if there is no index finger.  That would have made me believe that it was in fact saying number one.  Problem is there is more photos of a similiar model aircraft with a definite middle and index finger.  Maybe Guppy has some photos hidden somewhere that could clear it up.

[Skuzzy]

Those of you playing the 'politically correct' card can stop now.  It has zero to do with PC.  I hate that term.  Everytime someone tries to do what may be construed as something decent they get tagged with it.
Just because you do not like the decision does not make it something that was done out of political reasons.  Sheesh. Believe it or not, there are people who could care less about politics and you are talking to one of them.  If you cannot see it from anyother perspective, then you are being very myopic.

Oboe, I have no problems at all with your work or the work of any of the skinners.  We have a social reality to deal with.  It is that simple.  Trying to make anything more than that is just a waste of energy.
All this thread is going to do is allow some people a chance to say something negative about HTC.  Not to mention the time I will have to waste on it.

The times, the tolerances, and the attitudes have changed since WW2.

I am done with this.

[oboe]

Cobra412:   Hope so.   I would really appreciate knowing.   I modified my example and drew it as an extended index finger rather than the middle finger, and it does look more natural and correct than a palm-outward middle finger salute.    I just don't know how somebody could make such a gross error though?

Guppy if you're out there with photos of Itsy Bitsy II please pop in and help!

Skuzzy:   Thank you, sir.   I am not upset with HTC and apart from Shane's "boo" and killnu's threatened rant I'm not sensing any real anti-HTC sentiment.   As a group I think the skinners deeply appreciate what AH2 offers with custom skinning and are big supporters of your efforts.    I was hoping for some thoughtful and level-headed discussion on the examples I put forth, because as I said it seems to me we really do lack a "common" sense about what might be deemed objectionable.

But, while on this BB I consider myself a guest in your house, so given your position I think it would rude to continue further.

Guppy if you're out there with photos that could resolve the Itsy Bitsy II situation, please post some (separate thread though).

Thanks!

[Cobra412]

Maybe saying PC was the wrong set of words.  Not that it matters but I still don't see how nudity is okie dokie but a middle finger is not.

[MachNix]

oboe,

I think the hand graphic is suppose to be the index finger and thumb pointing up as in indicating a small distance ala "Itsy Bitsy."

[Kev367th]

Cobra412 - My Spit V, I was lucky, by putting more exhaust stain on I was able to make the 'boobies' almost obscure. Just pure luck that thats where they were on the original aircraft.

I seem to remember asking Skuzzy about that one as I wasn't sure and was told it was a "case by case" basis, so I sent it in and crossed my fingers.

Had to call them on a few ones, one of my Spit 9s "Spirit of Kent" is actaully a Spit 7, but by DDay they had all had their pointy wing tips removed (thanks Dan).

If your not sure you can always fire them an email of the noseart prior to starting and save some time.

[killnu]

sorry skuzzy, but at work, this would fall under PC.  i also hate the term(working with women is a job in itself).  guess the US navy has institutionalized me somewhat.  my apologies.

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by oboe


Guppy if you're out there with photos that could resolve the Itsy Bitsy II situation, please post some (separate thread though).

Thanks!

See Itsy Bitsy hand graphic thread for my explaination of the hand gesture.

Dan

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by oboe
Your mama gave you some good advice, but I'm not sure I take your meaning.   It sounds like you agree that skins should be kept strictly historical, and if deemed offensive then they just shouldn't be in the game?

btw - does anyone know if "Itsy Bitsy II's" scheme is truly unique?
Maybe he had a squad mate with a less offensive skin that I could modify Itsy Bitsy into?

Also, I have no intention of ranting against HTC.   This is their game and entirely their call.    The skin submission guidelines don't say much about objectionable elements in skins, though, so it might be beneficial if we can come to some sort of mutual understanding within the skinning community...

Itsy Bitsy II is unique.  The black areas covered places where the Lightning had been hit by flak etc.  Laven was flying as Exec of the 49th FG so he had some leeway in his paint job.

If the 49th History is to be believed, Laven was very demanding and definately all fighter pilot.  It got so bad that some of the ground crews refused to service his bird.  They had to find a Crew Chief who would go toe to toe with Laven.  They did apparently when they assigned Sgt. D.C. Todd to Laven.

Quoting the 49th History "Todd was one of Linquyan's most notorious operators.  The sergeant was a boot legger, ****-fight bookie and suspected fence on the black market in Luzon.  He would have been court martialed except that he was too damn good at his work"

Laven was intent on getting his fifth kill to reach ace status, having claimed 4 Japanese planes earlier in the Aleutians.  On a mission he finally got his kill, an Emily flying boat, but there was some debate whether it was airborne or on the water.  Todd, after reading the combat report, painted the silhouette of a PBY on Itsy-Bitsy II, that nearly lead to blows between he and Laven.

Needless to say, the George Laven story is one I wish someone would write

Image is crew chief Todd.  Note the trains and nose art on Itsy Bitsy II

Dan

[Schaden]

If it flew in WW2 and is therefore a historical skin it should be allowed....lol "Jewboy" must have had a serious set of balls!!! Imagine the LW after action reports!!

[Knite]

Guys, what it comes down to is NOT HTC's sensibilities or non-sensibilities. It is the world we currently live in. This game has to abide by the laws of every country it is sold in, as well as the moral and ethical standards of that location, so as not to be sued/investigated. HTC is not being "PC" by denying these things, what they are doing is covering their collective tulips so someone doesn't come by and try to shut them down. This is the nature of the world we currently live in. When you have a commercial item in the hands of the public, you now have to be cognizant of every person that could possibly be out there, and minimize as many risks to yourself as possible, and that is what they are doing here.

Do I wish these things could be allowed? Yes. But not at the risk or cost of HTC and the time and effort they put into this game for our enjoyment.

[killnu]

not being "PC"

can call it whatever you want.  all the "today sensiblilities", "social realities", whatever you want to label it as...is what i work with everyday, and i know what we call it(well, we call it a few things actually   ).

besides, this is all beside the point anyways, this topic has been "done with".   HTC fealt they did what was necessary and that is thier decsion to make.  i can respect that.   Skinners, keep up the good work!!  you guys are amazing.

[oboe]

You guys might want to pop over to the Itsy Bitsy hand graphic thread - Guppy's explanation of the hand gesture (it's not "flipping the bird") is amazing.    Turns out its a gesture given to screwups called the 'rigid digit'.    Definitely not an 'FU'.

[killnu]

i know.  i think dan is amazing.  i think he has every air combat history book ever made and then some.

[sullie363]

I wonder if anyone from HTC will chime in with this new development.