Author Topic: Reversals  (Read 521 times)

Offline Hristo

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Reversals
« on: February 22, 2000, 12:30:00 AM »
For considerable amount of time I am trying to repeat those great WB 109 type reversals.

Yes, the ones you see 109s in WB do while you are engaged in low speed stallfights against them.

It worked wonderfully there. For example, a Spit XIV is behind your 109K-4, you do some barrell roll or rolling scissors defense, but once you point your nose up and Spit follows, you hit hard rudder and come down instantly at climbing Spit. It just looks amazing when performed right.

However, I have not been able to do it in AH. In G-10, at low speed and nose high attitude, I push hard right rudder and even help with ailerons, but my hammerhead is very slow and mushy. If I do it at speed too low, the plane will depart, and tremendous torque is no help either. Flaps do not seem to help all that much there.

Doing my reversal to the left is risk of losing control and spinning (as it was in WB) and then it might be wise to shut engine off. However, this is not the reversal I am looking for, power off reversal works here, but it is very slow and allows climbing opponent to get a shot on you.

Was anyone been able to do WB reversal moves in here ? What do you think it is different ?

Seems to me our 109 has more limited low speed control authority than WB one, at least in rudder department. And engine torque is far more pronounced.

In fact, I have been able to perform better slow speed reversals in AH F4U than in G-10 !

[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 02-22-2000).]

funked

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Reversals
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2000, 01:42:00 AM »
Hristo.  I do them to the left.  I usually end up using a lot of right aileron and a little left rudder.  Minimum speed to start the maneuver seems a little higher than in WB, but I haven't been flying this flight model for 5 years yet.  

funked

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Reversals
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2000, 01:44:00 AM »
Also:

"Seems to me our 109 has more limited low speed control authority than WB one, at least in rudder department. And engine torque is far more pronounced."

I think this might be accurate.  G-10 is basically a 1935 airframe with a 1944 engine!  There is a lot more torque than what the original designed was intended for.

Offline Hristo

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Reversals
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2000, 04:22:00 AM »
Agreed on engine/airframe opinion, Funked.

Can you please give me rough estimate of how long it takes you to reverse (hammerhead), from start of applying rudder until when you point 180 degrees backwards.

Good WB 109K-4 180 degrees reversal took no longer than 3 seconds (dont't quote me exactly on this, but it was pretty fast and scary   ).

[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 02-22-2000).]

funked

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Reversals
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2000, 07:08:00 AM »
Mine seem to be about twice as long as in WB.  Also I'm not very good in the Me 109.  I've been flying the La-5FN alot as it seems to suit me (handles great during those reversals).

Yes the reversals were fast in WB!  I think there are some flaws in the flight model that resulted in this.  The planes rotated too quickly in a spin for example.

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 02-22-2000).]

funked

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Reversals
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2000, 02:48:00 AM »
Hmmm I spent some time doing reversals in the various 109's, and I think it comes down to aileron/rudder authority at low speeds as we suspected.  I also noticed that using too much aileron can cause a stall, and that by pushing forward on the stick I can "unstall" the wing a little and restore some aileron authority.

Try La-5FN back-to-back with the 109's in these maneuvers.  The difference is remarkable.  I can go down to about 25 mph IAS in the Lavochkin without spinning.    

[This message has been edited by funked (edited 02-23-2000).]

funked

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Reversals
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2000, 02:51:00 AM »
Another thing on 109 reversals:

Mine seem to go easier if I pull the nose a little past vertical.  Maybe 110 degrees of pitch.

Offline Hristo

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Reversals
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2000, 12:09:00 PM »
Exactly, a bit over the vertical.

Also, nose down push helps to regain control.

Still, I prefer hammerhead to the right, but F4U can do it cleaner than 109G-10, and P 51 is very close.

None of these reversals is as fast as WB ones though.

Offline Dingy

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Reversals
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2000, 12:31:00 PM »
 
Quote
None of these reversals is as fast as WB ones though.

Well of course not! AH and WB are two different games!  Out of curiosity, however, I would be curious to find out which game models these hammerhead reversals closer to those done in RL.  Wonder if the time to complete them in RL is closer to AH or WB.

-Ding

Offline humble

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Reversals
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2000, 11:24:00 AM »
Guys,

I'd love a clip or two if possible...or i'll go to training arena ..hehe.. I'm constantly amazed at some of the reversals I see here. In AW the only similiar moves where "out of plane" reversals by F6's or 38's on merges..otherwise the gunnery models seemed to make them pretty useless.

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Offline indian

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Reversals
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2000, 12:33:00 PM »
Dont think WB had all aspects of drag AH does so dont think when you turn in WB you induce more drag so you wont loose much speed. In AH you move flight controls you induce drag especially the rudder, I also noticed the low speed of the wing overs, also that the hog starts to turn to one side before it comes around on its own then i just elp it in that direction.Which is probably just the way I fly it.)

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