gun safety

[culero]

Originally posted by Kegger26
snip
After watching it again....I noticed he is not just some cop...but a DEA agent....classic...

ROTF

culero (known a lot of those in the past, typical)

[Dune]

I have to say in the last 1.5 years, I have had two cases where officers have shot themselves in the leg while holstering their sidearms.  The cases are funny only because both of them are now back on duty.

Especially the supplemental reports from the other officers. "I heard a loud bang and saw a bright flash and Officer Bob yelled, "****!  I shot myself!" and fell down.

In both cases they tried to stuff their guns (One a Glock, the other a Sig) and their hands into their holster at the same time.

[Dune]

PS, shock doesn't make things stop running (be it a person or an animal)  Bleeding out does.  And for that, the bigger the wound channel, the better.

[Hawklore]

I laugh at the classes reaction not at him shooting himself..



I got a question for some of you..

Someone at a gunrange told someone to hold their rifle straight up in the air and not at the ground..

That dosn't make since to me, there are generaly two safe directions to point a firearm and towards the ground seems more safe then up in the air to me..

I'd understand if it was over concrete but this was over a dirt/clay road...

[Gunslinger]

WTF was this guy doing with live ammo at a SAFTEY CLASS??????

If anything unload all your live stuff or use a demo weapon with dummy rounds for emphasis.  The only reason he should pull out a loaded weapon in a saftey class would be to clear it completly.

Other than that it should stay in his friggen holster.

[culero]

Originally posted by Dune
PS, shock doesn't make things stop running (be it a person or an animal)  Bleeding out does.  And for that, the bigger the wound channel, the better.

I've always understood that transferring as much momental energy as possible to a target with one shot is the best way to effect a "stop". If the ammunition used is of sufficient power and the projectile well-designed, immobilizing or knocking the target down is a reasonable expectation of a good center-of-mass shot.

Then, if "finishing" is desired, you should at least have the advantage of an unchallenged second shot opportunity.

I prefer the "knock-down" approach to the "bleed 'em" approach whether hunting or (in theory thus far, thankfully) self-defense. My hunting experience bears my opinion out (I'd much rather walk to where I saw 'em fall than follow a blood trail).

culero

[bustr]

An old freind of mine was a DC cop for 10 years on the street when he got the transfer he wanted to armorer detail and  Pistol instructor. He was very good as a street cop and an excellent armorer and insturctor. 2 weeks into the new gig he shot himself in the hand with a baretta while dismantleing it in the armory. It's always left me speechless. I thought barettas had loaded chamber indicators at least.

I know the obvious statements and questions at this point. He would never tell me what he was doing just before it happened. All I know is until I personaly make sure a gun is unloaded, I don't clean or start disassembling one.

[Dune]

All very true.  But, I'm more thinking of a small bullet making a small hole.  I was very interested to read in BHD the views of the one SF trooper who felt that the .223 was just going through the bad guys and not stopping them.  He'd much rather have had a .308.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm believer in the Roy Weatherby school of faster is better.  And the Robert Rourk theory of Use Enough Gun.  Until you get to using .470 Nitro's on groundhogs, there is no such thing as overkill.  There is DRT (dead right there) and having to track.

But, all things being equal, I'd rather trust my life to a .45ACP 230grn Hydro-Shok doing 850fps, than a 9mm 147grn Hydro-Shok doing 1000fps.  Hopefully I never have to find out, but that's the way I'd bet.

[culero]

Originally posted by Dune
snip
But, all things being equal, I'd rather trust my life to a .45ACP 230grn Hydro-Shok doing 850fps, than a 9mm 147grn Hydro-Shok doing 1000fps.  Hopefully I never have to find out, but that's the way I'd bet.

Me too. When I was shooting a lot, .44MAG was my platform because of choice for sport, but for self-defense I'm a 1911 beleever.

If the 12 guage isn't appropriate in the circumstances, of course

culero

[Excel1]

Originally posted by Dune
All very true.  But, I'm more thinking of a small bullet making a small hole.  I was very interested to read in BHD the views of the one SF trooper who felt that the .223 was just going through the bad guys and not stopping them.  He'd much rather have had a .308.

I'm pretty sure I read it somewhere that some of those SF types were using M193 ball in their M4s for the explosive effect that they wont get using SS109 ball.

Excel

[Siaf__csf]

The real stopping power is contributed by a bloodpressure shock.

When you use hollow point or violently expanding ammo and you hit a large muscle or a major bloodvain it sends a shock to your vascular system which can either knock you unconcious or even kill you in one strike.

That's why full jacketed non-expanding rounds are the worst you can get for stopping an assailant - they basically make a hole and fly right through.

In an experiment where live goats were used as test subjects, several goats were shot from the side through both lungs.

With the non-deforming full jacket rounds the effect was amazingly low. In fact, when shot with a 9mm through both lungs the goat just looked around and continued eating. It took over half an hour before the animal finally collapsed.

With a special expanding round (I can't recall which label they used many anyway) a hit to the lungs killed in 1.2 - 4 seconds.

[Siaf__csf]

I know the obvious statements and questions at this point. He would never tell me what he was doing just before it happened. All I know is until I personaly make sure a gun is unloaded, I don't clean or start disassembling one.

Humans make mistakes. Except Jackal1, who apparently is perfect.

[culero]

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
The real stopping power is contributed by a bloodpressure shock.
snip

Good information as it applies to the appropriate target type.

Targets that have a structure with significantly strong physical structure (such as large thick bone, extremely thick muscle and gristle, or even armor) don't respond as well to an expandable or frangible projectile. Its on these targets you want solids, in order to maximise penetration (the target is designed to minimize the penetration and must be defeated).

culero

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Humans make mistakes. Except Jackal1, who apparently is perfect.

Naw, not perfect. Just a hell of lot closer than you are. Your skirt is showing. Grow up.

I had a Llama 9 go off on me once. I never did figure out exactly how it did it,but the outcome was thankfully hilarious. My wife and daughters thought the hole in the seat of my pants was TOO funny.

[Siaf__csf]

Blah