Author Topic: Use for cockpitfloor windows in F4F?  (Read 856 times)

Offline frank3

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Use for cockpitfloor windows in F4F?
« on: March 10, 2005, 05:17:03 AM »
What is, originally, the purpose of the 2 small windows in the cockpitfloor of the F4F?

Somebody said the early F4U modells had them to in order to aim small 50lbs bombs?

Offline BUG_EAF322

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Use for cockpitfloor windows in F4F?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2005, 06:17:33 AM »
How about the auto flaps for FM2 ??

Offline frank3

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Use for cockpitfloor windows in F4F?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2005, 06:25:36 AM »
:confused:

What has this got to do with my question?

Offline BUG_EAF322

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Use for cockpitfloor windows in F4F?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2005, 06:33:07 AM »
both usa planes that take off from carrier.
both are single engined
both got a tailhook
both got folding wings

need more similaritys :)

Offline BUG_EAF322

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Use for cockpitfloor windows in F4F?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2005, 06:33:53 AM »
thought f4f was a wildcat too

Offline hacksaw1

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small windows
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2005, 06:39:52 AM »
Hi Frank,

I remember reading somewhere that the windows helped the pilot during landing. The view from the cockpit over the midwing is not good, so they added the windows so the pilot could judge better how high he was. I imagine they were helpful on carrier landings.

Best Regards,

Cement1

Offline frank3

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Use for cockpitfloor windows in F4F?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2005, 07:33:03 AM »
Ah, I see! That's indeed very handy during landings!

Thanks Cement

Offline joeblogs

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Re: Use for cockpitfloor windows in F4F?
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2005, 10:30:19 AM »
I thought they were used by the pilots to verify that the indicator pins on the folding wing units were down. If they weren't, the pilot would be in the drink in just a few seconds.

Also, remember these guys are dropping the landing gear with the equivalent of a hand crank and bicycle chains. Might be nice to see your wheels and know the struts are locked.

-Blogs

Quote
Originally posted by frank3
What is, originally, the purpose of the 2 small windows in the cockpitfloor of the F4F?

Somebody said the early F4U modells had them to in order to aim small 50lbs bombs?

Offline hacksaw1

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Further info
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2005, 01:27:12 PM »
Hiya Frank,

Found this at the following link:

"[2] WILDCAT VARIANTS: F4F-3 / MARTLET I,III,II / F3F-3A

* As the F4F-3 emerged, it was a stubby, barrel-like aircraft, with mid-mounted square-tipped wings and a sliding frame-style canopy. There was also a small window on each side of the floor of the cockpit to give a pilot better downward visibility, though in practice the belly windows proved nearly useless. ..."

"The FM-2 wasn't much faster than its predecessors, but it had a much superior rate of climb and a higher ceiling, though since it used a single-stage supercharger its performance degraded seriously at high altitudes. It was also more agile and had longer range; pilots generally regarded as a fairly hot little aircraft. Other changes included elimination of the useless belly windows... "

If this is true, then Hitech can get rid of the windows in the AH FM-2 and probably save a few frames per second.

http://www.vectorsite.net/avwcat.html

Best Regards,

Cement1
« Last Edit: March 13, 2005, 02:03:34 PM by hacksaw1 »

Offline Widewing

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Re: Further info
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2005, 05:54:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hacksaw1
Hiya Frank,

If this is true, the Hitech can get rid of the windows in the AH FM-2 and probably save a few frames per second.


It is true. Eastern eliminated the windows with the FM-2. Early Wildcat prototypes had four windows (lace curtains were a pilot installed option).  ;)

Also note that the prototypes and the F4F-3 did not have folding wings, so the windows were not there to verify wing lock as someone suggested.

Did you guys know that P-38s had a small highly polished panel on the inside of the engine cowling so that the pilot could see if the nose gear was down and locked?

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline mtnman

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Use for cockpitfloor windows in F4F?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2005, 06:54:19 PM »
Prototype F4U Corsairs were intended to carry small 5.2 lb anti-aircraft bombs IN the wings. 5 compartments in each wing could each hold 4 of these fragmentation bombs, for a total of 40. These were intended to be dropped into formations of enemy bombers. I don't believe this feature was included in any production Corsairs. The production models also included a tear-shaped window under the cockpit, so the pilot could line up on his target. This window was included on all F4U-1's, and also on many F4U-1A's. It was deemed unnecessary, and was deleted on later model F4U's. It was also often painted over on the planes that had this feature. Apparantly this window was the reason that none of the F4U's had floors, even though the window was deleted. As far as landing on a carrier deck, I can think of better places to be looking during landing, the floor of the cockpit would NOT be on my list! Given the nose-down attitude taken during the approach, I don't think you'd even be able to see the deck. At least not until you had cleared the tail of the carrier. That window would be about as useful for landing as a window on the floor of your car would be for parking.
MtnMan

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Offline hacksaw1

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Use for cockpitfloor windows in F4F?
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2005, 01:56:46 PM »
Well, that the windows were removed on the FM-2 proves they were not useful.

I built two model F4Fs as a kid and I seem to recall that the windows were said to help during landing. My guess would have been that when the pilot glanced down and saw deck instead of water he'd be ready to cut the engine. But then again, that's what the LSO was supposed to signal to the pilot. Moot point at this stage.

The other day I was flying the Target Rabaul SBD-5 and it has a belly window. In TR you can see through it. The AH SBD has something on the floor but you can't see through it. Kinda looks like someone painted a window or something.

On the other hand, the TR Wildcat shows the windows from the outside, but you can't see through them from the cockpit.

Best regards.

Cement1

Offline frank3

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Use for cockpitfloor windows in F4F?
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2005, 04:16:10 PM »
Thanks for the answers guys, I now know what the windows are for (or what they're not for!)