Author Topic: Culero, this is what I was talking about (Read 1682 times)

Nash · « **Reply #30 on:** March 20, 2005, 12:22:34 AM »

Damn.... I don't think this is what Steve had in mind.

Lizking · « **Reply #31 on:** March 20, 2005, 12:25:26 AM »

Well, Nash, it pretty much typifys the reaction to wets here in Texas-we all know it is a problem, but there really is no solution, so phuck it, let's go fishing.

Lizking · « **Reply #32 on:** March 20, 2005, 12:33:17 AM »

Here is an photo of the mouth of Baffin-the shack we were looking at was on the third "lump" of the long island(moving South), that is why it was so pricey:

http://www.texmaps.com/aerials/12baffin-bay/slides/302797454a.html

lazs2 · « **Reply #33 on:** March 20, 2005, 09:57:03 AM »

I agree that the solution to illegals is to make it less attractive to cross the border. I would impose VERY heavy fines on employers who hired illegals and have a "waiting period" onm new hires of a day or 3 while documentation was checked out (like a gun waiting period).

Legal mexicans make great Americans.

lazs

mora · « **Reply #34 on:** March 20, 2005, 10:41:13 AM »

Kick them all out or make them all legal. They don't have a right to complain. The latter might be the easier option..

Traditionally you are giving very hard sentences to all kinds of criminals. At the same time you provide all kinds of services and even provide driving licences to illegals. That seems a little contradictory to me.

lazs2 · « **Reply #35 on:** March 20, 2005, 10:47:06 AM »

mora... that makes no sense whatsover.

lazs

mora · « **Reply #36 on:** March 20, 2005, 10:49:05 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
mora... that makes no sense whatsover.

lazs

I know that the situation is not that simple, but the situation is just unbelievable from my perscetive. I would not want to see a single illegal in my country and those caught should be thrown out immediately. OTOH I don't have anything against a well argumented legal immigration.

I admit that I know little about the whole situation, but I would still say that you should legalize those who are in and not let a single illegal in after that. You could employ some the new legals as border guards.

Steve · « **Reply #37 on:** March 20, 2005, 11:22:19 AM »

Culero, I wasn't trying to restart our old debate, since we really didn't disagree in the first place. You or someone mentioned that we should make healthcare affordable for the impoverished. The only way to do that is to throw money at the problem.
The people of CA are already doing so, to the tune of $1000.00 per person each year( each legal resident pays this for free healthcare for others). I feel the only way to get control is to close our borders, evict the illegals, AND make very harsh penalties for those who employ illegals.

Finally, I think Mexican nationals who wish to enter our country, work here, pay appropriate income tax, and abide by our laws, should be allowed to do so. I do not think they should be allowed to bring dependents with them, however. Not until they have acquired citizenship.

In my industry, the most common immigrant I run across is Romanian( they seem to flock to adult care home ownership). They enter the country legally and play by the rules. There's no reason others can't as well.

lazs2 · « **Reply #38 on:** March 20, 2005, 11:27:59 AM »

mora... look at a map and at our society. we have a very long border and are very adverse to simply stopping people and asking for paperwork... Most Americans don't even know what a passport is. We can travel thousands of miles without ever leaving the country. A lot never do.

It is all but impossible to keep people from sneaking in or cathcing them once they are in.

My solution gets around that by simply making HUGE penalties for hiring illegals.... Every new hire in the states would have to go through a background check just like for firearms. Any employer found grossly negligent (accepting obvious phony papers)would be shut down or imprisoned.... just like the gun grabbers do to firearms dealers.

people would still sneak in but... once the word got around that there was no work and no benifiets.... they would simply stay home.

lazs

culero · « **Reply #39 on:** March 20, 2005, 08:21:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Steve
snip
Culero, I wasn't trying to restart our old debate, since we really didn't disagree in the first place. You or someone mentioned that we should make healthcare affordable for the impoverished. The only way to do that is to throw money at the problem.

OK, but you're STILL wrong here. Well, at least wrong as I understand you to be meaning.

What I'm saying is that we should approach this problem by changing the way the system is structured in ways that encourage participation in payment for service by everyone who receives it.

I'm sure you'd agree that the way things are now, healthcare has a price tag that's beyond the means of some wage earners to pay for, right? Isn't the problem you cite (not only illegals, but citizens as well who need subsidy for healthcare) largely due to the fact that if you can't afford the whole bill, you must either find a free clinic or hit an emrgency room?

What I'm saying is:

1) Force insurance providers to allow "pool" participation by individuals that brings the cost of coverage closer to what large groups pay (you want to make $$$ on health insurance, quit trying to rape small customers, spread it out)

2) Offer a public subsidy that, instead of the "all or nothing" approach that exists now, encourages wage earners to pay for as_much_of their healthcare they can afford. Think perhaps long-term low-interest loans for catastrophic events (you may not collect all the debt, but hey some's better N none, eh?) and as last resort outright gift from public coffers.

If you'll think about what I'm saying, you'll see I'm realizing we're paying out our bungholes now (we know you agree here) but also realizing humans who need care are involved...so I'm trying to mitigate the cost in practical ways instead of saying "f*ck 'em let 'em die".

I agree with you, I don't wanna pay their tab either but hey, here we are. What's wrong with trying to make the tab smaller, by allowing them to pay what they can?

There's always more than one way to skin a cat. Mebbe if you start trying to innovate in positive proactive ways, you'll have better ideas than me.

culero

culero · « **Reply #40 on:** March 20, 2005, 08:24:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
snip
people would still sneak in but... once the word got around that there was no work and no benifiets.... they would simply stay home.

lazs

Word.

Unless, of course, enough jobs then became un-filled that we needed to allow some to come, legally, and supply that demand/pay taxes while they do.

What a concept, eh? Free market capitalism cures many ills.

culero

Steve · « **Reply #41 on:** March 20, 2005, 09:00:08 PM »

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Unless, of course, enough jobs then became un-filled that we needed to allow some to come, legally, and supply that demand/pay taxes while they do.

This is what I'm talking about when I said:

Quote

Finally, I think Mexican nationals who wish to enter our country, work here, pay appropriate income tax, and abide by our laws, should be allowed to do so.

Quote

Isn't the problem you cite... .... largely due to the fact that if you can't afford the whole bill, you must either find a free clinic or hit an emrgency room?

I'm saying that if hospitals didn't have to bear the burden of illegals using the ER as a free clinic that hospital costs to people who actually pay would be significantly lower and would subsequently result in more people being able to afford proper care. This, coupled with tort reform on malpractice, could go a long way to lowering medical expenses and making medical facilities fiscally viable as opposed to "The brink of bankruptcy".

It's a tad off topic but who do you think pays for high malpractice insurance costs? Again, it all trickles down to the paying consumer.... you and I.

We have to close our borders to illegals and sweep illegals out of the country then almost start over. Only this, IMHO will really make the situation palatable to the tax payer.

culero · « **Reply #42 on:** March 20, 2005, 09:10:46 PM »

I agree with you, Steve, regarding the nature of the problem. I just believe the "sweep the illegals" idea is costly and unlikely to be effective. Think "War On Drugs".

I also believe that approach is unnecessary since drying up the bait for illegal immigration (illegal employers) would serve to do exactly as lazs said - remove their incentive to come here illegally, and/or stay illegally.

culero

Steve · « **Reply #43 on:** March 20, 2005, 09:13:05 PM »

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since drying up the bait for illegal immigration (illegal employers) would serve to do exactly as lazs said - remove their incentive to come here illegally, and/or stay illegally.

Perhaps, but I'm saying we should take both of these steps.

culero · « **Reply #44 on:** March 20, 2005, 09:13:12 PM »

I agree with you, Steve, regarding the nature of the problem. I just believe the "sweep the illegals" idea is costly and unlikely to be effective. Think "War On Drugs".

I also believe that approach is unnecessary since drying up the bait for illegal immigration (illegal employers) would serve to do exactly as lazs said - remove their incentive to come here illegally, and/or stay illegally.

Trust me on this: if you think most illegals come here for anything other than a chance for employment, you're ignorant of the relevant facts. That's not by way of insult, I'm just saying that because I know for sure that employment is the motivation of most illegals.

culero