Author Topic: M-26 Pershing  (Read 617 times)

Offline SunTracker

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1367
M-26 Pershing
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2005, 09:33:20 AM »
M-26 was too heavy to cross pontoon bridges.  Also it had a flaw with its fanbelt, this caused 7 tanks to be lost.

Offline MiloMorai

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6864
M-26 Pershing
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2005, 09:44:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
Gear,  

The only reason the M-26 was employed in small numbers was because Patton fought so damn hard to keep the Sherman production up and the Pershing production down.  His (Patton's) theory was that American armour should be fast and manueverable, and that tanks should not fight tanks, just exploit break throughs.  It was this "doctrine" that held up the Pershing's production when it could have been available in large numbers to combat the far superior German tanks.

Some in the army felt that Patton should have been held accountable for the deaths of so many of his tankers owing to his flawed doctrine.  His death at the end of the war stopped any further action against him, and a legend was allowed to form, while in reality, many who served under him hated him for the pompous, arrogant, egotistical arse he was.


Bodhi, how many Tigers and Panthers were in Italy and France? What about the much more numerous German AT guns and AT vehicles?

I think you forgot about the transportation and unloading dock facilities that the M-26 required.

On Patton, :aok

Offline Bodhi

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8698
M-26 Pershing
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2005, 09:58:17 AM »
As for the numbers on heavy tanks and AT guns the Shermans faced, it would have been much wiser to have a heavy tank that could at the least take a shot and not pop!

As for loading facilities, that was discussed heavily and the counter was to unload them in England and bring them ashore on LCT's....

The book Death Traps by Belton Cooper gets into this in detail.  He (Cooper) was also the one that uparmored that m26 they had, which was one of 3 in his unit.
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline gwshaw

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 90
M-26 Pershing
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2005, 10:26:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
Gear,  

The only reason the M-26 was employed in small numbers was because Patton fought so damn hard to keep the Sherman production up and the Pershing production down.  His (Patton's) theory was that American armour should be fast and manueverable, and that tanks should not fight tanks, just exploit break throughs.  It was this "doctrine" that held up the Pershing's production when it could have been available in large numbers to combat the far superior German tanks.

Some in the army felt that Patton should have been held accountable for the deaths of so many of his tankers owing to his flawed doctrine.  His death at the end of the war stopped any further action against him, and a legend was allowed to form, while in reality, many who served under him hated him for the pompous, arrogant, egotistical arse he was.


Somebody has been reading "Deathtraps" by Belton Cooper. The kindest thing that can be said about that is that it is full of crap. Patton, a field commander, had NO influence at all on tank development and deployment. And the doctrine wasn't his, it was McNair's baby if anyones.

The T20 series was in development from sometime in '43, and there is no way that the T25/26 could have been operational much sooner than it was. Besides, the US didn't get exposed to the Panther until 1q '44, and the Tiger was seen as a limited production, limited role heavy tanks, and rightly so.

Given the success of the M4 in N.Africa and Italy there wasn't any obvious need for a better protected tank prior to Normandy. Lack of better armament is less excusable, but the upcoming 76mm was felt to be adequate, unfortunately it wasn't. A 90mm armed M4 would have been ideal, it might have been possible to shoehorn the 90mm into the T23 developed turret, and an M4 with a T26 turret was considered. But a properly developed 90mm tank, the T25/26 would have been available just as soon, and M4/90mm would have interfered with their production.

If you want a more accurate history of the M26 development, find "Pershing" by Hunnicut. Cooper is an interesting read for the historical anecdotes. But when he starts up with his hearsay M26/Patton history it rapidly reaches the historical accuracy level of Huckleberry Finn.

Greg Shaw

Offline Bodhi

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8698
M-26 Pershing
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2005, 10:42:23 AM »
read Patton's letters to the contrary.

Also look at excerpts from Ord Dept, and you will see that Hunnicut is not entirely accurate either.  I have both books.


Patton did have influence a s a field commander, far more than you give credit for, and even more so did Ike, and Ike listened to Patton's rants more than I care to believe.
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.