Author Topic: Hitech Creations - Please Note...  (Read 1860 times)

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2005, 06:16:18 PM »
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DMax is talking about gameplay vs. "eye candy" Granted, as was suggested, many of the "younger" types equate the two as the same. It is not.


 Emphasis on graphics is a long term investment. We're the disappearing kind of guys Lute.

 The "young 'uns" are the dominant drive behind the gaming market now. AH, due to its nature, and thanks to a strong fan base (of WW2-based aerial combat sims) which existed from years and years ago, has been relatively uneffected by that drive, but how much more do you think that's gonna last?

 In about five years most of us 'veterans' will be gone from this game for one reason or another. Newer, younger people will fill the rosters in the MA(or TOD) more and more - that is, if they are interested in AH in the first place. And to those who have the future in AH, graphics IS gameplay. Nothings gonna change that. It's like chanting "the world is still flat" if you wish to deny it.

 If AH doesn't start catching up now, it won't ever.


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ALL Dmax (i'll assume here) and myself really WANT would be a smooth game playing experience. With the current setup, it is far from smooth. I have the greatest fear (reading the update re. new terrain etc) that with the release of 2.03 AH will become even less stable, and harder to enjoy.

I have no need to have hirez cockpits with little chigger gauges that my old eyes can't read. I could care less about (i had a list going, but decided against it) all the other "eye candy" that seems to be the main thrust as of late.


 I want that too, and I think I have it - at least upto satisfactory levels.

 Like Skuzzy said, it could be about how your system is set up. I'm not exactly using a state-of-the-art system myself. I bought my Pentium4 PC more than four years ago, running with a 1.7Ghz CPU and 512 ram. Over the course of four years I bought one additional 512DDR, and got a used GeForce4 Ti4600 for a cheap price. The CPU is still the same, and my hard drive's never been reformatted over those four years. (Occasionally defragmented)

 With about 'mild' level AH2 graphic settings(graphic detail sliders to 50% detailed) I get smooth 40~50 fps in most situations, 30-ish when there's a lot of smoke, and 20~30 when there's smoke, fire, heckuvah lot o' planes, flak bursts, and CVs and buffs nearby.

 Recently, I've found out that for some reason, adding in 4x AntiAliasing doesn't effect my AH2 even for 1 fps - which also increased the graphics quality of the game without substantial loss of performance.


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I DO care about a smooth, enjoyable experience in a flight sim. I wish with all my heart that HT thinks back to the old AirWarrior days, and remembers just what got him addicted to flight sims in the 1st place. It was never about the graphics, but about smooth gameplay.


 Air Warrior is dead, Lute. Granted, not because of graphics, but for more variety of reasons, it was lagging behind.


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I dearly pray, that in future releases, HT moves the focus on to making the "flying/fighting" part of this most excellent sim the main thrust of his attention, and turns away from the dark path of more "eye candy", which is an evil, horrible path to travel.


 The flying part is as high as it gets(since the FM is good), and the fighting part is upto the gamers to choose - unless a totally new strat/tact/gameplay option/settings is introduced into the game which might effect how people fight(which HT is working on, in the name of TOD).

 The path of eye-candy is the path leading to the future Lute. Besides, the more the flying gets detailed, ironically, the more performance hit it would take - more sophisticated calculations, as Skuzzy said.


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Granted, there is a happy medium, and that of course can be obtained with some effort, but please, PLEASE HTC move your focus BACK to what made it great in the first place.


 Let's not forget - AH already was in the 'happy medium' for years and years, since v1.04 to the final release of AH1. It was already obtained for more than five~six years. It's time to move on.


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Don't tread the path of the heathen IL2 types, or cater to the FPS wanna b's. Awesome looking trees won't make AH2 a better sim. Smooth flying, and great fighting will. Far, FAR better to be the best flight model and smoothest game experience, than the best looking.


 Lute, what you're basically saying is that AH should stay in the same place. It would indeed make AH into a more smooth flying game, but it will also make it a DEAD game.

 Think about it - a few years ago, before IL2 came out, noone would ever expect a mere, packaged, boxed game with limited multiplayer environment would ever influence the WW2 air combat fans so deeply. AH was always the best - comparable graphics to its major contendors such as WB, AW, FA etc.. and still better game play.

 Then IL2 steps in, and the WW2 air combat gamers would never be the same. Frankly, as someone who reviewed games for money(part-time job in my country anyway), my opinion is IL2 is the most significant influence into the whole flight simulation genre since EAW. It changed the way we think about air-combat sims, our perceived 'limitations' about what the graphics can do, and the standards of which future air-combat sims should follow.

 That 'heathen', also swept away a lot of avid AH2 fans into its ranks - which is a surprising thing to think about, since before IL2/FB, everybody came to AH, noone walked away from it to go to something other.


 .....


 I'm not refuting you just to piss you off Lute. I know how you feel, and I know how the old fans can feel left out. But the iron rules of the market and progress must apply to AH2 too. HT doesn't offer us this for charity.

 AH has stayed in its place for more than five years, in the form of AH1, ever since I was first hooked up to it in the late '90s.

 It's time to move on, if AH is to survive through the long years and continue to serve us with better gameplay and graphics. It can't do that if it lags behind because some of us cannot cope with the change. It would be best if every user can always follow AH2 whereever it goes, but someone is always left out when change occurs.. and when that happens, AH is not gonna wait for us.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2005, 06:20:26 PM by Kweassa »

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2005, 06:18:48 PM »
JB88, the 'ground view' cancels out everything visible on the horizon, but increases the visible distance of ground objects to four miles(3 miles max in normal circumstances).

 Since 1 mile worth of all the ground objects are now visible, ofcourse it takes a hit when you enter that mode.

Offline JB88

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« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2005, 06:51:11 PM »
makes sense.

i was just asking because skuzzy had mentioned field of view in relation to frame rates, but i guess it makes sense that it would only increase the amount of objects that way...duh 88...lol



:)

88
this thread is doomed.
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word.

Offline iKo

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« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2005, 12:43:52 AM »
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Originally posted by DMax
my three detail/performance sliders are all set about 1/3 rd across from the left

 


That is the key when you move sliders you can see as you move them what kind of FPS you are getting. If you set them you will be fine. have a ATI AIW Pro 9700 and had sliders all the way up and had 15 to 30 fps. moved them like 75% up from the left to the right now getting 40 to 80 and I use everything but water. Distance is all the way up.

Hope that helps

Offline rabbidrabbit

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« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2005, 09:57:05 PM »
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Mwdogg, you cannot compare FPS games to a flight simulator.
FPS games have highly restrictive view distances and far fewer complex objects and modeling than a good flight simulator does.
The physics alone in a good flight simulator would kill a FPS game.  Motion, for the most part, in a FPS game is predefined and scripted.  Not so in flight simulators.  Flight simulators work in real-time.
So let's turn the view down to a mile or less in the arena and watch how high your frame rate gets.  Of course you will not be able to shoot down many planes, but the performance would be killer.

Max, there is something eating CPU time up on your system.  My little 800Mzh P3 w/ATI8500 video card runs about what you are claiming yours does.  Give me call.



Skuzzy , this sounds fine but if it's the case, why are my frame rates the worst ina gv?  There are no flight physics going on there.

Offline BigR

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« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2005, 10:10:48 PM »
Gotta pay to play people...Lesson of the day is that computer games cost more than the box, or the monthly fees.  Sad fact of life...you could just buy a console and play "Secret Weapons over Normandy" or "Halo2"...I guess ive just grown up with computer games...and the way i always looked at it was this: "Buying a decent computer and some good games to occupy your time will save you money in the long run...you might end up with bad hygene and no girlfriend...but at least you didnt spend 1000 dollars on prom with a girl who you havnt seen in 10 years and never put out anyway =)" What does that have to do with anything?? Absolutely nothing.

Offline Black Sheep

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« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2005, 10:24:13 PM »
It would be beneficial to alot if someone would update or post a link to optimizing our computers. I'm sure there are stickies somewhere, but I'm too lazy to look....:p

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2005, 10:45:16 PM »
That'd be good.

 But the problem is, since the days of the Microsoft Windows, internet, and multi-tasking.. everything on one's own system has become so frickin' complicated that it's virtually impossible to come up with a general help to optimize one's system.

 Like for instance, some people recommend installing all of the latest Windows drivers and upgrades... however, in my case, my system runs fine with XP service pack1, and when I installed service pack2, the system went haywire. Some people say defragging the disk helps, but in my case defragging has almost no effect in perceivable difference in performance.

 It's very hard to come up with anything recommendable, except for a very loose guidline.

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2005, 10:46:08 PM »
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Skuzzy , this sounds fine but if it's the case, why are my frame rates the worst ina gv? There are no flight physics going on there.


 More visible ground objects.

Offline rabbidrabbit

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« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2005, 08:14:58 AM »
Yes, and there are plenty of visible ground objects in other FPS games.  But they look much better and run better on my machine.  Skuzzy was saying you can't compare due to the flight engine which I assume is mostly absent in a pnzr but still the graphics are 5 plus years ago in appearance yet it hogs way more cpu time than something that looks much better.

Offline ghi

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« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2005, 08:57:43 AM »
amd 3.4/64 , radeon ati 9800 pro,  i used to get 75 fps most of the maps
  but  2 days ago i found my comp infested with "Trojan virus", that passed through, windows service pack2, Northon updated,(with auto protect enabled always, !!!)
    i reinstaled Windows, drivers update for ATI,and all programs but , i get less fps 40- 50-60, freezes and when i change view left/right up/down  i have a delay of view change,:confused:
« Last Edit: March 31, 2005, 09:06:52 AM by ghi »

Offline Rolex

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« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2005, 10:50:10 AM »
I used to pity people who wanted nothing to do with computers. Now I envy them.

I still like Aces High; I've just grown to hate computers.

Offline mojo55

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« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2005, 12:07:28 PM »
Do not use omega drivers.Your vid card and wallet will thank you .

Offline Muddie

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« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2005, 01:37:24 PM »
Size Matters!!!!


      :eek:

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Originally posted by doobs
running Geforce40 with 2.26 pent 4, wish ihad 60 frame rate.
But I have no prob running at 30fps, game plays fine, no animated water, but I'm not here to go swiming anyway.
vox works,(most of time:rolleyes: ), bad guys go boom, I go boom,

but waiting on TOD before I go ubersize.

btw; need some technical jargon excuse to give my wife, on why I  need a new pc after only 2 years.



Anybody looking for a dell 4500

oh and had the same frame rate in AH1, so I'm used to it whatever that means, cause I've been in FSO with 60FPS and didn't notice a difference in gameplay.  But with that said I do have better fiter results in FSO.

Offline Skuzzy

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« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2005, 02:03:47 PM »
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Originally posted by Kweassa
More visible ground objects.

Actually Kweassa it also has to do with the 17 mile visibilty above the vehicle.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
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