That Russian SMG thing...

[Nefarious]

Were they issuing Thompsons in Korea or any other SMG's? Were they hard to come by? I was kinda suprised to see GI's carrying them.

[lasersailor184]

They were issuing Thompsons all the way to the beginning of Vietnam.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Fishu
Except they had to look at Suomi KP/31 before making their PPSh

http://guns.connect.fi/gow/suomi1.html

Hmm. I didn't know that Suomi was desigled in 1931.

Russian analogue of Suomi was PPD-34 adn PPD-40 that had a drum-magazine inspired by Suomi.

Africa (some people here may remember him) bought a disabled PPSh-41, bolt deformed, barrel drilled and drum has no spring. I disassembled it and was really surprised of how simple it is. No more then 5 parts. Finish is very rough, you can easily tear your clothes with burrs. This thing was designed for production in any metal-bed factory. Barrel is chromed because of low quality of steel finish.

PPSh is only three letters in Cyrillic, ППШ, Pistolet-Pulemet Shpagina, Shpagin's Pistol-Machinegun.

Interesting fact is that in 1941-42 each PPSh came with 3 drums that could fit this gun only, they were not interchangable and couldn't be used with another PPSh. They solved this problem only in 1943.

Another thing is that it fires from open bolt, and the gun literally jumps in your hands when you pull the trigger, but in close combat it wasn't important.

Here you can sometimes see people guarding railway tunnels and bridges armed with PPSh or Mosin 1891/30 three-line rifles... Reliable weapons that don't need almost any maintenance.

Edit: PPSh is pronounced "pe-pe-sha", stress on last "a".

[Vad]

Originally posted by Fishu
Grease gun has rate of fire of ~350, tommy has ~650-750
Brits early on had Thompsons with the drums, but most were issued to the navy
Besides brits didn't like the drums as much as the stick magazines, because of the rattling and more cumbersome handling.
Thompson was already rather heavy for an SMG.
The grease gun was lighter, but had a poor rate of fire by the time it was introduced.

The germans who switched from MP40 to PPSh41, did so because of the higher rate of fire (~500-600 -> ~800-950) and more rounds if used with the drums.
However for the riflemen its not a big wonder if they opt for an SMG in CQB.


I would rather choose 9mm SMG.
Surprisingly it would be the Suomi KP/31, better than the PPSh41

Never heard that germans switched to PPSh from MP-40. At least in russian movies about WW2 it was conversely, russians often carried MP-40. MP-40 was lighter, more reliable, and low rate of fire is obvious advantage in combat. It was almost impossible to fit out drums in combat, therefore russians switched to stick magazins .

[Fishu]

Originally posted by Vad
Never heard that germans switched to PPSh from MP-40. At least in russian movies about WW2 it was conversely, russians often carried MP-40.

Germans had more targets than the russians
I'm not saying that they did it during the combat though, but instead chosen to grab PPSh over the MP40 from the weapon storage.
I don't know the exact details how it happened though, just that there were occasions when PPSh was grabbed before MP40.

[WpnX]

I have a PPSH here with me now date stamped 1944. It looks like it just came out of the box and appears to have never been fired. I'm not too impressed with the thing; the Thompson is, without a doubt, much better as far as quality goes. My favorite sub though is the British Sterling; awesome weapon. The thing barely moves while firing full auto. It's very enjoyable to shoot.

[Pongo]

The sterling is a fantastic war fighting weapon as apposed to a body guard weapon. Accurate and reliable and increadably robust.
It was my personal weapon in the army for 4 years and I loved it dearly.

[lasersailor184]

Never heard that germans switched to PPSh from MP-40. At least in russian movies about WW2 it was conversely, russians often carried MP-40. MP-40 was lighter, more reliable, and low rate of fire is obvious advantage in combat. It was almost impossible to fit out drums in combat, therefore russians switched to stick magazins .

There's nothing I can say to this except WRONG.

[Boroda]

In Soviet movies Soviet soldiers use captured MP-40s because in the beginning of the War there were not enough SMGs in Red Army, and an automatic weapon could be more usefull then a 1891/30 rifle. And it's also a sign of military valour - having a captured enemy weapon

Before 1941 main "future weapon" for Red Army was SVT-40. Funny, but it took less man-hours to manufacture an SVT then a Mosin bolt-action rifle, OTOH it was more expensive... Mosin needed more manual work, SVT needed more factory equipment and automated work.

You can see soldiers armed with SVT in any war-time Soviet film.

[genozaur]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
They were issuing Thompsons all the way to the beginning of Vietnam.

Wasn't it the same Thompson that jammed during the assassination attempt at the life of Reinhard Heidrich ? Good SMG !
If not for that bomb, Hitler's favorite SS leader could be still alive !  

[genozaur]

Originally posted by Vad
Never heard that germans switched to PPSh from MP-40. At least in russian movies about WW2 it was conversely, russians often carried MP-40. MP-40 was lighter, more reliable, and low rate of fire is obvious advantage in combat. It was almost impossible to fit out drums in combat, therefore russians switched to stick magazins .

In 1941 the supply of PPSH was very scarse (except for Soviet border guard troops who had more PPSHs than the regular Army units). So, it's no wonder that the Red Army soldiers would prefer MP-40 to their own rifles. During 1941 the Soviet Front Commanders were competing for the supplies of PPSHs. This was a big problem decided by Stavka.

[lazs2]

with ball ammo I would allways opt for the .45 over the weak 9mm.  On the other end of the scale I would go with the czech scorpion in .32 for light weight, high rate of fire  and close quarters work.  

lazs

[Suave]

The Papasha was a very good weapon. especially for fighting in forests. The germans used them often, even started manufacturing a modified version that could use their ammo if I remember right.

[lasersailor184]

You are correct.

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by lazs2
with ball ammo I would allways opt for the .45 over the weak 9mm.  On the other end of the scale I would go with the czech scorpion in .32 for light weight, high rate of fire  and close quarters work.  

lazs

But lazs, we all have to ask ourselves one question:  What would Voss carry?  

Karaya