Author Topic: Texas HS football coach shot  (Read 1292 times)

Offline Skydancer

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Texas HS football coach shot
« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2005, 06:04:31 PM »
Oboe maybe you have a point.

Violence is a problem here too but I happen to think it better to have fewer guns in a violent society. A Violent man with a gun is more lethal than a violent man without one.

Just makes sense to me.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #46 on: April 08, 2005, 08:07:16 PM »
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Is it that you simply can't bear to hear someone express a point of view other than the dominant one?
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No, actually I can't bear to read ridiculous points of view, particularly when the poster contradicts himself in the same post.

For example someone posting that "guns are only for killing" and then saying how he had a good time shooting clay targets with one.

Further, I can't bear see the Reich Minister of Propaganda's saying come true. You know, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

So, I generally respond when I see someone posting the same old... balderdash.. (is that the polite euphemism?).

A good example of this would be someone continually postulating that what works in a small country with a essentially uniform population will work just the same in a country many times larger and with a far more diverse population.

For example saying that solutions that work for an island country with a land mass of 88,788 square miles, a population of 58,789,194 will work in a country with a land mass of 3,539,224 sq miles and a population of 290,809,777. Where ONE state alone, California has a land mass of 156,000  square miles and a population of 35,484,453.

 
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Or would you be happier if I simply agreed with everything that you and others say.
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You should feel free to voice your opinion. However, you need to understand that EVERYONE here has that option. Many Euros seem to think that once they voice THEIR opinion, everyone else should keep silent.

It doesn't work that way, as I'm sure you know.

You're free to post anything you like. You should EXPECT that some will challenge what you post and post THEIR opinion.

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Personaly to me it seems that your nation has a serious homicide problem.
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I haven't seen anyone here deny that.

 
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America is in love with guns and has one of the highest homicide rates in the developed world.
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We do have gun culture. We do have a high homicide rate.

However, the idea that using UK gun controls will change that is not a given. In fact, it's likely it would make things worse.

There are several reasons for this and all of them have been discussed enough here. Suffice it to say we have always had a violent culture and the UK has not. Perhaps those two facts have their roots in the past. After all, the droit de signeur never really existed here. Some cultures are more passive than others.

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The fact that I live in a country with a relatively low murder rate, and there are few guns in the hands of citizens pleases me no end.
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As it should. You should realize, although I'm sure you don't, that that happy circumstance has more to do with the nature of your population than your gun laws. You have a historically polite society, where historically the common man was not armed and subservient to authority and you are not very ethnically diverse.

Review the crime rates/homicides in the small areas of your country that are ethnically diverse to see the difference that makes.

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Its very liberating not having to worry whether the bad guy is wielding an assault rifle or handgun. I'm happy with that.
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I find it very liberating not worrying about "bad guys" at all. I don't.

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But don't expect me or others to shut up because it doesn't fit your view of things.
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Physician, heal thyself. Don't expect me or Laz to shut up because it doesn't fit your view of things. It's that "free speech" thing that so few of you Euros seem to understand.

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What is this a mutual appreciation society for people who all think the same or a bulletin board? Think about it?:rolleyes:


Think about this. That is apparently what YOU want this to be.

I rarely if ever start these "gun" threads but I will contribute when the horse doobers start spewing from UK keyboards such as yours.

I will ALWAYS contribute. Get used to it; it's that "free speech" thing.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 08:15:36 PM by Toad »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Skydancer

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« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2005, 04:10:54 AM »
Toad I don't expect you to shut up.

And for the record I believe you address the points and debate them. Others use the excuse to flame ad bait!

No maybe our rules will not work over there but it seems that your gOvt ought to take a serious look at the problem you have. From what I can see the NRA determines govt policy in the states.

As for Britain having a uniform population I think the European, African, Caribean, Australian, Indian, Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Middle Eastern, Balkan, Eastern European, American, and Irish residents of our Island might have a different view.

Remember we once had an empire until fighting the Second world war bankrupted us ( all part of the American plan? ) And many of the people's of that empire have been coming here since the 16th Century and before. We are a very ethnicaly diverse lot in this country. So i don't think that has anything to do with it.

I think your problem ( you as in americas nowt personal here) is that you have a love of guns and violence embedded in your history. Your history is relatively young as a nation and your nation was forged by war and violence only recently. Maybe culturaly you are still suffering from the hangover of that.

Also maybe that is why most european nations do not support your Govts millitary adventuring. Unlike your nation most countries in europe know full well what violence and guns can do. Still just in living memory we suffered as people from the most devastating war yet seen. Its a relatively fresh memory. It maybe allows us to have a little more empathy with those whose  countries become the playgrounds for generals and ruled by men with guns. And that empathy means we've no desire to see what happened to us all inflicted on others. Britain and Russia was bankrupted and much of Europe destroyed. The only nation who benefited from WW2 was the US. Your people suffered no bombing destruction of their homes familiess industry and  livelehoods. You have no experience of that so you continue to love your guns, think it OK to impose your model of the world on other nations and act as if nothing will happen to you. Europeans know what a society awash with guns is realy like and have a very negative experience of it.

( a different take on the issue maybe, but less valid? )

Ok rant over thanks for reading. You are a gent Mr Toad I honestly can't say the same for the others you mention.

Ok Semi Hijacking over!:aok
« Last Edit: April 09, 2005, 04:56:39 AM by Skydancer »

Offline Raider179

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« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2005, 05:20:59 AM »
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Originally posted by Furball
maybe he felt threatened so it was ok


not even gonna read this thread any further. lmao good one!

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2005, 10:24:46 AM »
skyprancer... you are a socialist country who has allways had a low crime rate and high taxes and low median income...

You say that your laws make you safer but your crime rate is very high... you say that not being able to do something is "freedom"  to quote one of your countrymen "slavery is freedom"

We can eliminate homicides and most crime here... we have the perfect model... the old soviet union was a paradise of the government protecting it's people from themselves....

ours is the complete oppossite... yours is somewhere in between.

I wouldn't even think of living in england but I love liveing in America.  I want more freedom tho... not less.  

and raider... I think you are mostly wrong on fireams ideas... I am not picking one you but I do think that it is worth discussing them with you and that you are capabel of seeing other sides of the issue.   I am one of those guys that you talk about that would show you my firearms and be proud of them... If you wanted to see em... I would also be glad to take you out shooting and show you some things about guns and gun safety.

Problem is... the guys like me are getting harder to find... with the new antio gun climate people get to shoot less and are restricted more so have lost some of the desire to even go through all the red tape and negative attitudes.

lazs

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #50 on: April 09, 2005, 10:32:16 AM »
this is the perfect example of the media bias against guns (obviously) and.... the perfect example of hysterical gun control laws making things worse..

gun free zone?  yeah... for anyone who could have been of help...

assault rifle ban?   what assault rifle?  even a .45 auto ban wouldn't have helped... he could just as easily have used a cap and ball .44 blackpowder gun that you can buy without any real regulation...  it would have worked as well or better for the intended purpose.

For you gun control advocates...   What kind of law would have prevented this shooting?

lazs

Offline Toad

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« Reply #51 on: April 09, 2005, 10:40:23 AM »
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Originally posted by Skydancer
but it seems that your gOvt ought to take a serious look at the problem you have.
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As if they are not. Our homicide rates have been steadily falling over the last decade or two. The solution has been to punish the criminals. How very, very clever, eh? Instead of punishing the law abiding citizens, punish the criminals! BRILLIANT, don't you think?

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From what I can see the NRA determines govt policy in the states.
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Which just shows how distorted your view is. Not your fault, you probably form your opinions from what mainstream media tells you.

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As for Britain having a uniform population I think the European, African, Caribean, Australian, Indian, Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Middle Eastern, Balkan, Eastern European, American, and Irish residents of our Island might have a different view.
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92% white is your idea of diverse? Excuse me, that's too funny.

From 2001, your own government stats:



Sorry, old bean... you clearly have no idea of diversity.
 

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the Second world war bankrupted us ( all part of the American plan? )
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Oh yes.. we secretly hate you and wish you ill.

This is an idiotic comment; it deserves a vulgar insult. Instead, I'll try to remain polite.

You doubt it, go visit the American military cemeteries that dot your lovely country. Go to St. Paul's in London and visit the American Memorial Chapel.

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Also maybe that is why most european nations do not support your Govts millitary adventuring. Unlike your nation most countries in europe know full well what violence and guns can do.
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I'd hope so. You lot have brought the entire world to war twice in the last 100 years.

What we also learned is that doing a Chamberlain and ignoring a growing evil doesn't work.

You folks seem to want to Neville your way around again.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Raider179

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« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2005, 01:04:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

and raider... I think you are mostly wrong on fireams ideas... I am not picking one you but I do think that it is worth discussing them with you and that you are capabel of seeing other sides of the issue.   I am one of those guys that you talk about that would show you my firearms and be proud of them... If you wanted to see em... I would also be glad to take you out shooting and show you some things about guns and gun safety.

Problem is... the guys like me are getting harder to find... with the new antio gun climate people get to shoot less and are restricted more so have lost some of the desire to even go through all the red tape and negative attitudes.

lazs


Ummm if you didnt notice I live in Georgia do you really think I don't know how to use a gun or about gun safety? lmao


You just can't counter the things I say about guns so you use questions and vague statements. I am never about getting rid of guns sorry if thats what you think. I just get tired of hearing about shootings every friggin day. We had a cop get shot here last night by someone's parent. Cop never got a shot off. Guess having a gun on you doesnt always help ya.

Offline moot

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« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2005, 02:35:13 PM »
Not trying to sidestep the forum rules, the truth is your posts are just crap, Zulu.
You need to have your brain extracted and put into at least one other countryman's skull for about a lifetime (starting with an american's) before you'll start getting a clue..

Arguing as a means of learning just isn't a function of yours.
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Offline Skydancer

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« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2005, 06:52:20 PM »
"You lot have brought the entire world to war twice in the last 100 years."

And as a result we seem to have learned more by the experience than the US govt has!

( though Mr "nose up Bush bum Blair has not!")

We'll just have to try vote him out!

Offline Toad

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« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2005, 07:51:45 PM »
What  you learned is that even though Neville Chamberlain was proven incredibly wrong, you are all willing (or perhaps foolish enough) to give his theories one more try.

Your collective "learning" is what makes the UN totally ineffective.

What WE learned is that if we try isolationism like we did after the first world war of yours, we'll get dragged into yet another one.

Far better for us to be proactive than isolationist, although isolationism is my particular choice.

No comments about your "diversity"? I thought not.  :rofl
« Last Edit: April 09, 2005, 07:53:54 PM by Toad »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2005, 11:12:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skydancer

No maybe our rules will not work over there but it seems that your gOvt ought to take a serious look at the problem you have. From what I can see the NRA determines govt policy in the states.

 


  Geez Louise, here we go with the same lame crap.
   Why do you think restrictions for concealed carry is slowly, but surely loosening up? You think our "gOvt", as you put it, is just throwing these ideas around because they are bored?
  The NRA is the voice of a group of very determined and very freedom minded people. Nothing more , nothing less.
  Is it the freedom to have such organizations that bothers you?
  Once again, you should spend more time worrying about your country and your government. Let us deal with our country. You have no voice and no input into the workings of our country.

  As far as this incident goes....This should have been dealt with and taken care of way before it came to this point. The guy in question had a long, ongoing conflict with this coach for some time. He had assaulted and confronted the coach on numerous occasions before the shooting.
  One thing that I found very revealing while this was going on was the fact that out of all the law enforcement personel that were on or nearby the scene that had been called in, it was Channel 4 that located the man`s truck and notified law enforcement.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2005, 09:52:53 AM »
raider.. I have no idea how you feel about guns or how much gun safefy you are aware of except by what you post.  You seem reasonable to me but I can't help but wonder where you get your ideas.

You say I am vague.. I don't mean to be..  I am usually fairly outspoken and clear.   You seem a little vague to me tho... statements like "rgulations need to be tightened" and "something has to be done" and "get tired of hearing of shootings every friggin day"

soo... What regulatins need to be tightened and how?  How will these tightened regulations solve any of the gun vilolence mentioned in any post in this thread?  

You are getting tired of hearing of gun violence?  do you get tired of hearing of drownings or stabbings or motorcycle deaths?  Do you think it possible, especially in light of this thread, that the media may be using yu a tad bit?  Playing to your emotions with some anto gun yellow journalism?    Lotts book "the bias against guns" is a good source of info on the media.

I don't like to see people killed or accidents happen but it is the price of living in Amercia and I wouldn't have it any other way.  I will concede your point tho if you can come up with a plan that doesn't infringe on law abiding citizens rights and lowers crime and homicides.    

lazs

Offline oboe

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« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2005, 11:37:37 AM »
laz,

what would you think about having the gun ownership rights of violent people revoked?    People like the guy above, who was a well known hothead in his community and had been banned from the school grounds.   Is that going too far, in your opinion?

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2005, 11:57:34 AM »
Here is the deal... if he is a criminal then his rights should be revolked so long as he is in prison or on parole...  when he has done his time he deserves to have his rights restored.   if he is too violent to have gun rights then he is too violent to be out amoung us.

so far as "violent people" .... in whose opinion?   Is a person who has been in a fight with his spouse a "violent person"?  is someone who gets into a fistfight with an obnoxious person a "violent person"?  who decides and what are the parameters.  I do not agree with the "domestic violence" parameter for instance.  Even a lot of cops are in danger of losing their gun rights over that one.   What good is a ban?   wasn't he "banned" from the school grounds in any case?

This to me is like taking away a drivers licence on a domestic violence conviction.... too much chance for abuse and mistake.

It is a sad thing that once in a while in our country of 300 million that things like this happen but it is hysterical to go on a banning spree that has the potential to bring on far more harm than good.

lazs