Author Topic: How do you do it?  (Read 7576 times)

Offline Morpheus

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« Reply #120 on: April 10, 2005, 05:14:28 PM »
The thing you dont get is that I'm not getting excited. Im calling it what it is. Are you that stupid that you really cant understand that?
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Offline Rett

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« Reply #121 on: April 10, 2005, 05:24:58 PM »
ok both of ya




relax

Offline Redd

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« Reply #122 on: April 10, 2005, 05:58:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DamnedRen




So Ren can we just clarify something ? I'm curious.


When one of your students says to you "I prefer to bail , rather than fight if I think I might be shot down "

you reply   " That's perfectly acceptable  - it's your $14.95"    


?
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Offline DamnedRen

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« Reply #123 on: April 11, 2005, 08:43:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Redd
So Ren can we just clarify something ? I'm curious.


When one of your students says to you "I prefer to bail , rather than fight if I think I might be shot down "

you reply   " That's perfectly acceptable  - it's your $14.95"    

Absolutely not. I don't say anything. We work on flying. That's a persons philosophy of flying not mine and none of my business and it's not readily discussed.  If someone asks my response is "my best fun is getting up, fighting  and landing my kills". Again, that is my philosophy. It might not be yours. I don't ask you to fly using my philosophy nor do I criticize you for you flying your way.  

That's the same as some guy (and many do) showing up in the TA and ask for bombing training. I personally prefer to dogfight and think the reason most folks end up bombing is they use a mouse and still want to fly, can't get dog fighting skills down or just like to bomb. I don't criticize them for it I teach em how to bomb. They came for help so they get it without me telling them my philosophy of the game.

Are you suggesting that, like some big ego dude, having flown a few years and pay $15 a month they have a right to bad mouth you for flying the way you want to? Those guys aint worth the noise they put up in the arena or the boards. All they want is to "show" everyone what a great stick they are. They don't give a damn about you or what you think. It's all about them. My point is you paid to come in here and have fun. You ain't hurting anyone cause you feel bailing is a good thing. You didn't pay to have some big ego'd dude tell you what he thinks is right or wrong for you to do. If that dude wants you to fly his way let him pay for you to fly. Then if you feel you wanna do it go ahead let him spend his money to bolster his ego. In fact, let him put his money where his mouth is? Come on, Egodude, pay my way. I'll tag along and let you think your da best in the whole world! Who else wants in? Let him pay your way too! Otherwise, he's just another loud mouth ego dude that has absolutely no value to anyone but himself. He just has a different whine is all.

Rett------cute . :)

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Offline Redd

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« Reply #124 on: April 11, 2005, 09:03:37 AM »
Ren

I guess I'd argue that it is the current players responsibility to give some sort of guidance to new players on some aspects of the game  you would maybe  call "cultural" or "the unwritten rules" .

Be nice if the MA didn't become a complete joke , and stayed an enjoyable game.

But like you say - he's not realy hurting anyone, it's just a strange way to approach the game.
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Offline mars01

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« Reply #125 on: April 11, 2005, 10:01:29 AM »
Quote
If you've been around since those days then like the rest of us old timers, you've seen it all and don't get too excited about some guy that bails nor do you whine about it on the radios or the BBS.

I guess that's why it sets me off to hear guys like the mouth profess to world how great he is and bad talks people just trying to keep their head above water. Like he was never there.
For the record Ren, Morph never mentioned how great he is or anything of the like.  All he did was chastise this guy for choosing to fly like a chump.  And you seem to be getting quite excited.  I don't know if you came in here with your jiblets already all twisted up, but you still won't accept or realize bailing to avoid a kill because the odds have gotten too tough is completely wrong and not a way anyone should fly in this game.  Sure today not everyone is doing it, but when people espouse flying this way they need to know it is wrong, I don't care how much they spend.

It's analogous to Saying, "We'll he bought the gun so if he wants to go shoot someone, who am I to say anything."  The logic doesn't work.  

Bailing when you have gotten in too deep is deplorable and should never be accepted or defended.

Quote
When one of your students says to you "I prefer to bail , rather than fight if I think I might be shot down "

you reply " That's perfectly acceptable - it's your $14.95"

Absolutely not. I don't say anything. We work on flying. That's a persons philosophy of flying not mine and none of my business and it's not readily discussed. If someone asks my response is "my best fun is getting up, fighting and landing my kills". Again, that is my philosophy. It might not be yours. I don't ask you to fly using my philosophy nor do I criticize you for you flying your way.
 
Honestly, you are doing a disservice to the community, the person who came to you looking for advice and training, and yourself. If you don't have the ability to know what is right and wrong in this context then you shouldn't be training. People go to a trainer to learn what is right and wrong, be it flying, tactics, or conduct.

Again another analogy, it's like a student pilot asking, "Is it ok to fly VFR through JFKs airspace, not talking to anyone?" Your response, "Well you paid the $100 bucks to rent the plane, the $5k to get you license, so if you want to that's your prerogative." You would lose your CFI if they knew you were teaching crap like that.

So your trying to be all PC and your missing the line between right and wrong.

Offline DamnedRen

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« Reply #126 on: April 11, 2005, 10:18:55 AM »
Redd, I agree with you that the older players in the game should show by example.

From my years of teaching I've found that how players end up is a direct result of what they learn in the game in the first 6 months of playing.

It seems 90% of all new players have the idea that dogfighting is where it's at. You get to drink, high rank, awards and you get the girls. Everything else comes second. They ALL start out in fighters. Remember this point. Training them is another story. Everyone learns at different rates and when you have 4-5 students at a time you have to train to the slowest in the bunch. Alternatively, some guys used to find it acceptable to get 2 of the 5 up to speed and let the slower ones slide.

Now, the MA is no place for a newby to fly when he's had no training. It's pure death, over and over. The learning curve is high. Just getting his views and stick set up takes an hour or more. And he hasn't even flown yet! Cutting thru all that rhetoric it's safe to say the newby gets discouraged and starts accepting (in his mind) second best but because it's a cool game he wants to continue to try and fly. Let me interject here that there really are alot of guys that like to bomb, too! Back to our newby. He wants to play but figures he doesn't have a chance in the dogfight arena. His alternatives? Bomber or tank driving. So now you see a bunch of bombers up and tank battles. The game is evolving and as long as people migrate away from dogfighting, mindsets are going to change.

We have on average, 3-4 newbys show up in the TA a day. This is a direct result of advertising by the powers that be. Many of these new folks really have no idea what the game is about. In fact, many ask," Ok, I'm here, what am I supposed to do in this game?" They have a mouse. No stick and are just looking at this point. They get a warm welcome and begin finding out more about the game. Many have come from other games. Not necessarily flight games but FPS type games. You die, you get back up, you die you get back up. Kinda like Tomb Raider. Eventually if you die enough you at least moved a lil ahead and learned to get to the next level. To them what's the big deal about dying or bailing? It's a game!

That's the mindset. Now they show up here expecting to find like minded people they can play with. Instead they get bad mouthed for doing what they think is fine. 'Nuff siad on that.

Is there a fix? Yes.  But people have to want to help. And remember, just like the new guy who's gonna be spending his money to learn and play the game there are all of us who pay and want some quality time when we are here.  How many times have you been flyng the MA and heard someone say, "how do I take off?" And, what's the normal response? "Read the manual" or "go to the TA". Why? Even though the answers are correct, it says to the new guy "we have a limited to time play and don't really wanna spend all of our quality time answering silly questions. That's why we pay our monthly fee to have fun!" Ok, true statment.

What's the fix? Bad mouthing someone? NO! Helping them along by all the older players? Yes!

Quite a few years ago I became a trainer because I wanted to give back to the game and I also had some selfish motives. I wanted the new guys to learn well so I could have enjoyable dogfights iso just clubbing baby seals. I never held anything back from the new guysl It was a win-win proposition. I get good fights, they get good fights and could go out and handle themselves in the arenas. And, they flew as fighter pilots because that's what the game was all about.  
 
Two night's ago I spent 2 hours getting 4 guys set up to fly. We were alone at a seperate field. When we were done. they could fly without losing sight of their enemy, not black out and were having alot of fun as a fighter pilots.

Last night I spent 1 hour getting one guy set up. The result was the same. In both instances, these guys  were pretty much, first timers. No real tactics at this point just basic stuff.

I'm not trying to toot my own horn. I'm trying to say there ae a limited number of trainers and it takes alot of time just to get people set up. We can spend hours every single night just getting them so they can "see".  Think of hour many hours a required to get em anywhere close to being able to stay alive in the MA. All the films put up by those are nice eye candy but if you don't understand why the moves are being made they ain't much more than a pretty movie and the inputs are missing. Value? Ok, for experienced players. Not much for newby's. For some guys with egos, they are "here look at what I can do". You have to understand, see it in person, then do it of you want to learn.

So how does the community help newby's? When they get up let em tag along and learn from you. Leave your ego at the door. The time you get yer head too big is the day you get shot down by some guy up on his first day and all he can see behind him is his headrest. Then the whinin starts. Leave you BS opinions about how some dude plays to yourself and help iso try and show everyone what a sick ego you have. If you do that you won't see alot of bailing. BTW, how many people have been shot up and had their tail shot off from 15k up. You gonna spend all day riding it down or bail and pull the rip at 600 ft? Like I said before, the only reasons that Captain's go down with their ships is because the lifeboat is full.

Has anyone ever seen any Damned bad mouth new guys? You won't. Our guys have too much class.

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« Last Edit: April 11, 2005, 10:40:23 AM by DamnedRen »

Offline x0847Marine

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« Reply #127 on: April 11, 2005, 10:34:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Morpheus
I find it even more hellarious that this tool thinks bailing out is helping his score. Did he fail to see that when you bail out with nme all around you and it says "player X shot  you down"?

Hey genious. Thats a kill. And its recorded as a death in your stats!

I'd like very much to think I've bitten on a cheap troll. But with the current MA enviorment, I doubt it.

 When someone shows me that they have the willingess to learn and want to be helped I will do everything I can to provide some sort of assistance to the best of my ability. The fact you think I'm trying to stroke my ego while calling this tool out on his chump tactics simply shows me that you dont want to talk about the problems at hand. You saw an easy way to try and make yourself look like the good guy and it came back to bite you in the ass.

No matter how hard you try, you cant viably deffend what x0002885753Marine is doing as right.


lol right or wrong is relative, it's right IMO ergo it simply doesn't matter to me what anyone else thinks.

And I disagree totally, since I've started bailing a-lot more I'm close to a fighter score that reflects 100 more "kills" than "deaths". Being captured is not a death, for the slower amongst us being an EPW equalls "being alive".

Is there something wrong with entering combat and ultimately leaving the battlefeild alive?.. seems like a tactic that can come in handy.

Perhaps next campaign I'll change tactics, or not. This game has become a bit dull and mundane; same recycled maps, zero variance in how team goals are accomplished... before I move on to another game, I'm trying to mix up the way in which I play; lately it's been a concentrated effort on not being killed. I used to fight to the death every time no matter what, emphisis on doing as much damage as possible before eating the golden BB. That was ok for awhile...

But now it just seems like a waste of time... I think I got as much out of doing that as I'm gonna get, time to focus on something else.

It's easier, and has become more challenging, to traverse myself into a position where I can bail out and avoid being shot down. If possible I'll run, run, run and drag as many as I can away from my team-mates... then bail out... and laugh.

While so and so gets credit for shooting me down, I did deny him (or her) the satisfaction of filling my imaginary plane full of little imaginary holes... and hopefully now they're that much farther away from causing harm to a team-mate on top of wasting thier resources.  My K/D ratio has improved dramatcally as well.

Every game 'community' tries to make certain things unpopular, in Americas Army the negitive emphisis is on "campers".. yet it's the campers who usually complete the objectives. Here it's the "HO"... whatever.. I always get a good laugh at the louder ones who insist on yammering on and on that thier way of playing a game is "right".

In the end it just doesn't matter to me what anyone thinks, it's my $14.95.. if I decide running around, not firing a shot, and getting people to chase me only to bail out at the last second is fun, I'll do it.. and LMAO at annoying whoever it was chasing me... and thier opinions that "it's wrong"

Offline DamnedRen

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« Reply #128 on: April 11, 2005, 10:39:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mars01
For the record Ren, Morph never mentioned how great he is or anything of the like.  All he did was chastise this guy for choosing to fly like a chump.  And you seem to be getting quite excited.  I don't know if you came in here with your jiblets already all twisted up, but you still won't accept or realize bailing to avoid a kill because the odds have gotten too tough is completely wrong and not a way anyone should fly in this game.  Sure today not everyone is doing it, but when people espouse flying this way they need to know it is wrong, I don't care how much they spend.

BS. All he ever does is tell every one how great he is. "I got 50 kills in a tempie" Or look at my new films of how great I am" That's all he ever does! And it doesn't hold water with alot of older flyers.

It's analogous to Saying, "We'll he bought the gun so if he wants to go shoot someone, who am I to say anything."  The logic doesn't work.  

What part of "this is a game" did you miss here?

Bailing when you have gotten in too deep is deplorable and should never be accepted or defended.

I suppose its just gonna ruin your day and you're gonna quit the game for ever? Get off your high horse! MUAHAHAHAHA!

Honestly, you are doing a disservice to the community, the person who came to you looking for advice and training, and yourself. If you don't have the ability to know what is right and wrong in this context then you shouldn't be training. People go to a trainer to learn what is right and wrong, be it flying, tactics, or conduct.

No, I don't teach people to bail. I dont even suggest it. They do it all on their own. When a directive comes down from above telling me that I should teach people that they should never bail then I might think about that. Until then people come an learn to fly with the trainers. Not one has ever bailed during training. They may have crashed alot but not bailed. And I'm way too busy trying to teach them to fly than spend hours telling them they need to fly to your standards even if they pay to fly. Just like you do. You analogies are a joke. If you want my opinion you should have to bomb nonstop for the next 5 months. No fighter flying just bombing. Oh, you don't like that? Why? Because I'm telling you your a chump if you dont do it? Well damn, you pay to play the game anyway you want don't you? How dare I tell you you're a chump if you don't bomb! Get a grip!

Again another analogy, it's like a student pilot asking, "Is it ok to fly VFR through JFKs airspace, not talking to anyone?" Your response, "Well you paid the $100 bucks to rent the plane, the $5k to get you license, so if you want to that's your prerogative." You would lose your CFI if they knew you were teaching crap like that.

Reality check once again! It's a game!

It's one thing to defend a squad mate. But that's pretty weak dude. Not as weak as yer big ego'd bro though:D

If you noticed I'm responding as a playing member of the community. These are my views and IMHO you need to understand it ain't all about you. It's about every player that wants to fly here.

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Offline DamnedRen

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« Reply #129 on: April 11, 2005, 11:05:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by x0847Marine
lol right or wrong is relative, it's right IMO ergo it simply doesn't matter to me what anyone else thinks.

And I disagree totally, since I've started bailing a-lot more I'm close to a fighter score that reflects 100 more "kills" than "deaths". Being captured is not a death, for the slower amongst us being an EPW equalls "being alive".

Hmmmm, seems to me like just another guy gaming the game.

Is there something wrong with entering combat and ultimately leaving the battlefeild alive?.. seems like a tactic that can come in handy.

It'd be nice to have to spend time in a POW camp or let you try and escape

Perhaps next campaign I'll change tactics, or not. This game has become a bit dull and mundane; same recycled maps, zero variance in how team goals are accomplished... before I move on to another game, I'm trying to mix up the way in which I play; lately it's been a concentrated effort on not being killed. I used to fight to the death every time no matter what, emphisis on doing as much damage as possible before eating the golden BB. That was ok for awhile...

Are you saying you found it difficult to get home and land yer kills?

It's easier, and has become more challenging, to traverse myself into a position where I can bail out and avoid being shot down. If possible I'll run, run, run and drag as many as I can away from my team-mates... then bail out... and laugh.

Tactical gaming lol.

In the end it just doesn't matter to me what anyone thinks, it's my $14.95.. if I decide running around, not firing a shot, and getting people to chase me only to bail out at the last second is fun, I'll do it.. and LMAO at annoying whoever it was chasing me... and thier opinions that "it's wrong"

Like I said before if it was that a big a deal in the community then the powers that be would make changes to stop it. Maybe if you whine enough they wil make a change. Until then, right or wrong, everyone has the right to fly as they wish. I as a member of the community defend his right to play, like it or not

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Offline Edbert1

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« Reply #130 on: April 11, 2005, 11:23:49 AM »
None of those stats mean anything by themselves...k/d k/t k/s can all be raised significantly by a certain type of flying. k/d can be jacked up to double digits very easily by timidity. k/t can be doubled by fighting in friendly territory only and never RTBing. k/s gets a boost by taking a P40b or 202 into a furball of spitVs and eating them alive until you get cherried. HOWEVER, get all three of them below a 200 ranking and you've accomplished something in my book.

But regarding scores and stats in general...I think it is pointless to try and watch your stats and compare them to other flyers. I look at mine regualry but I am comparing them to my own stats from the previous day/week/month/year. I use them to see what parts of my game need work not as some sort of manhood-measuring device.

Offline mars01

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« Reply #131 on: April 11, 2005, 12:18:08 PM »
Quote
lol right or wrong is relative, it's right IMO ergo it simply doesn't matter to me what anyone else thinks.

And I disagree totally, since I've started bailing a-lot more I'm close to a fighter score that reflects 100 more "kills" than "deaths". Being captured is not a death, for the slower amongst us being an EPW equalls "being alive".

Is there something wrong with entering combat and ultimately leaving the battlefeild alive?.. seems like a tactic that can come in handy.

Perhaps next campaign I'll change tactics, or not. This game has become a bit dull and mundane; same recycled maps, zero variance in how team goals are accomplished... before I move on to another game, I'm trying to mix up the way in which I play; lately it's been a concentrated effort on not being killed. I used to fight to the death every time no matter what, emphisis on doing as much damage as possible before eating the golden BB. That was ok for awhile...

But now it just seems like a waste of time... I think I got as much out of doing that as I'm gonna get, time to focus on something else.

It's easier, and has become more challenging, to traverse myself into a position where I can bail out and avoid being shot down. If possible I'll run, run, run and drag as many as I can away from my team-mates... then bail out... and laugh.

While so and so gets credit for shooting me down, I did deny him (or her) the satisfaction of filling my imaginary plane full of little imaginary holes... and hopefully now they're that much farther away from causing harm to a team-mate on top of wasting thier resources. My K/D ratio has improved dramatcally as well.

Every game 'community' tries to make certain things unpopular, in Americas Army the negitive emphisis is on "campers".. yet it's the campers who usually complete the objectives. Here it's the "HO"... whatever.. I always get a good laugh at the louder ones who insist on yammering on and on that thier way of playing a game is "right".

In the end it just doesn't matter to me what anyone thinks, it's my $14.95.. if I decide running around, not firing a shot, and getting people to chase me only to bail out at the last second is fun, I'll do it.. and LMAO at annoying whoever it was chasing me... and thier opinions that "it's wrong"
Well Ren your boy said it all.  

This guy is a chump and everything Morph has said is true and magnified by Marines latest post.  I hope Marine does move on and soon.  

I applaud you on your will to train, I shudder at you letting chumps like this guy think what he is doing is a defendable act.

Do I care that much, only if other weak willed people jump on the chump bandwagon.  Right now it is an isolated incident.  I hope it stays that way.  Most people have the balls and self respect to fight it out, death or not.  

BTW - It's obvious you have some ax to grind with Morph and you are using this thread as your opening.


Quote
BS. All he ever does is tell every one how great he is. "I got 50 kills in a tempie" Or look at my new films of how great I am" That's all he ever does! And it doesn't hold water with alot of older flyers.
 What part of "this is a game" did you miss here?  

I think you are getting Morph confused with Zazen lol.  Anyway you sound like sour grapes to me.

And your it's a game BS doesn't hold water either.  Just because it is a game does not mean that people can act like chumps and it is ok.  I would hope a trainer would know, understand, and respect that.

I have seen the majority of guys in this thread express the same idea that what Marine is doing is ghey and wrong.  I guess your horse is too high to see that as well.

You can have the last word, it is pointless to discuss this any further.  It is obvious Marine could care less about the community, the game, or anyone but himself.  So no sense in wasting the time.

It's too bad an ole timer, like yourself had to come out smelling as bad as the noob.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2005, 12:24:57 PM by mars01 »

Offline SlapShot

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« Reply #132 on: April 11, 2005, 12:21:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by x0847Marine
lol right or wrong is relative, it's right IMO ergo it simply doesn't matter to me what anyone else thinks.

And I disagree totally, since I've started bailing a-lot more I'm close to a fighter score that reflects 100 more "kills" than "deaths". Being captured is not a death, for the slower amongst us being an EPW equalls "being alive".

Is there something wrong with entering combat and ultimately leaving the battlefeild alive?.. seems like a tactic that can come in handy.

Perhaps next campaign I'll change tactics, or not. This game has become a bit dull and mundane; same recycled maps, zero variance in how team goals are accomplished... before I move on to another game, I'm trying to mix up the way in which I play; lately it's been a concentrated effort on not being killed. I used to fight to the death every time no matter what, emphisis on doing as much damage as possible before eating the golden BB. That was ok for awhile...

But now it just seems like a waste of time... I think I got as much out of doing that as I'm gonna get, time to focus on something else.

It's easier, and has become more challenging, to traverse myself into a position where I can bail out and avoid being shot down. If possible I'll run, run, run and drag as many as I can away from my team-mates... then bail out... and laugh.

While so and so gets credit for shooting me down, I did deny him (or her) the satisfaction of filling my imaginary plane full of little imaginary holes... and hopefully now they're that much farther away from causing harm to a team-mate on top of wasting thier resources.  My K/D ratio has improved dramatcally as well.

Every game 'community' tries to make certain things unpopular, in Americas Army the negitive emphisis is on "campers".. yet it's the campers who usually complete the objectives. Here it's the "HO"... whatever.. I always get a good laugh at the louder ones who insist on yammering on and on that thier way of playing a game is "right".

In the end it just doesn't matter to me what anyone thinks, it's my $14.95.. if I decide running around, not firing a shot, and getting people to chase me only to bail out at the last second is fun, I'll do it.. and LMAO at annoying whoever it was chasing me... and thier opinions that "it's wrong"


Not only are you a "gamer", your a "griefer" too ... when did you say that you will be moving on to another game ?
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Offline Furball

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« Reply #133 on: April 11, 2005, 12:24:51 PM »
Wehn K/D go UP! = l33t!!!1! go UP!
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Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #134 on: April 11, 2005, 12:38:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by DamnedRen
BS. All he ever does is tell every one how great he is. "I got 50 kills in a tempie" Or look at my new films of how great I am" That's all he ever does! And it doesn't hold water with alot of older flyers.  


You're obviously confusing Morpheus with someone else.  That, or you're simply making stuff up about him.  Please find a couple of examples of Morpheus behaving in the manner you just described.

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