Military service

[wrag]

Originally posted by rpm
Let me get this straight. It's the Bush administration and republicans that are pushing this, but you are blaming it on Hillary Clinton? In those out of context quotes she says nothing about cutting Vet's benefits. But, I guess you could make believe she is out to get you. I suppose the republicans that are trying to take them away are just there to help you.

Not blaming any specific politician.  Blaming the mindset of the politicians.

To me there is very little difference between the 2 parties.  More of a what they are calling themsleves today thing. IMHO BOTH parties are acting upon this.

While Bill was in office many active service personel had to get food stamps in order to feed their families.

I am saying I am NOT a Socialist. I am NOT a Democrate, I am NOT a Republican.

I am also saying from my viewpoint there is very little difference any longer between the 3.

You didn't read it all?

Sadly the person quoted below is starting to make sense to me.

"These things I believe: That government should butt out. That freedom is our most precious commodity and if we are not eternally vigilant, government will take it all away. That individual freedom demands individual responsibility. That government is not a necessary good but an unavoidable evil. That the executive branch has grown too strong, the judicial branch too arrogant and the legislative branch too stupid. That political parties have become close to meaningless. That government should work to insure the rights of the individual, not plot to take them away. That government should provide for the national defense and work to insure domestic tranquility. That foreign trade should be fair rather than free. That America should be wary of foreign entanglements. That the tree of liberty needs to be watered from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. That guns do more than protect us from criminals; more importantly, they protect us from the ongoing threat of government. That states are the bulwark of our freedom. That states should have the right to secede from the Union. That once a year we should hang someone in government as an example to his fellows." --Lyn Nofziger

[rabbidrabbit]

No,

I'm saying you are condemming the whole for the actions of the few.  It comes accross as incredibly ignorant and disrespectful of the sacrifices so many hundreds of thousands of decent men and women who have served.  My point is that there are many who get fair judgements, many who get shorted and a few who get lucky and exploit the system.  At no time did I say that this is how it should be.  Rather, I'm taking offense to your complete disregard of observable fact to substanciate a minor point.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by wrag
Hmmm BTW 100% is considerably more then $660.00.  

Not if you consider E-1 under 6 mo. pay at the time with COLA increases over 20 years its not.  for somone that washed from basic training this sounds just about right.

other than that I have very little to disagree on with you or airhead.  (he does make a good point BTW)

[rabbidrabbit]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Not if you consider E-1 under 6 mo. pay at the time with COLA increases over 20 years its not.  for somone that washed from basic training this sounds just about right.

other than that I have very little to disagree on with you or airhead.  (he does make a good point BTW)

Military disability is not determined by your payscale in the military. It is based on the medical review boards' determination of what injuries you have and how long they will persist.  It's then a process of matching the injury with the rating given by the book.

Airhead makes a valid point but then goes way beyond the line by using this minor point to generalize and demean the far greater majority for the actions of the few and the system that let them slip through.

[Elfie]

In the mid 80's Congress talked about killing/severely modifying retirement benefits. This isnt the first time this has been tryed, probably wont be the last time either. It has failed every time so far, lets hope it fails again.

[SunTracker]

Military retirement should be based on how many people you have killed.  Time to start putting combat troops ahead of supply wieners and truck drivers.

[wrag]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Not if you consider E-1 under 6 mo. pay at the time with COLA increases over 20 years its not.  for somone that washed from basic training this sounds just about right.

other than that I have very little to disagree on with you or airhead.  (he does make a good point BTW)

If memory serves me correctly 100% for ALL vets is about $1070.00 per month.  Pay grade means nothing.

As to Airhead's response, I gotta go with rabbidrabbit.

Airhead generalized far too much!  Way too broad a piant brush IMHO.

And I repeat....

"Your point is abuse? Abuse of the system? State Welfare abuse is far worse, and in a far greater numbers. Shall we add in the cost of treating all the illegals? Have THEY even tried to serve this country or it's people?????"

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by wrag
If memory serves me correctly 100% for ALL vets is about $1070.00 per month.  Pay grade means nothing.

As to Airhead's response, I gotta go with rabbidrabbit.

Airhead generalized far too much!  Way too broad a piant brush IMHO.

And I repeat....

"Your point is abuse? Abuse of the system? State Welfare abuse is far worse, and in a far greater numbers. Shall we add in the cost of treating all the illegals? Have THEY even tried to serve this country or it's people?????"

I stand corrected.  

BUT, he makes a good point and bringing up state welfare by you is irrelevent since that is not the topic.  I know guys that were hurt in bar brawls that got a medical discharge.  They now recieve disability from the govt for their own neglegence.  

I don't agree with cutting vet. benifits but I do think the entire system is due for a good overhaul.  Especially considering all the NEW disabled vets the system is about to take in.

[Airhead]

Originally posted by wrag


Have you served?  Have you been in combat?

Your point is abuse?  Abuse of the system?  State Welfare abuse is far worse, and in a far greater numbers.  Shall we add in the cost of treating all the illegals?  Have THEY even tried to serve this country or it's people?????

Airhead ....... do you have a soul?

I ask because I've noticed several of your post on the BBS.  Begining to think your handle fits you.  SOOOOO in keeping with a promise made to me long ago, God Bless YOU, be with you and keep you well.

I say this because, to me, your post frequently seem higly judgemental of others in what seems to be a critical manner.

Further when I look upon your post I find myself thinking that perhaps this person has NOT walked a mile in the shoes of those he has so readily passed judgement upon.

Have you ever been to a V.A. hospital?  Sat there all day to see someone in order to see someone, etc. etc. etc. ?????

Yes Wrag, I served four years including one tour in-country in 1970-71, stationed at Nha Be, South Viet Nam, as a firefighting/damage control instructor.

A month before my discharge I injured my back by falling on a pipe (cracked sacrilliac- man there's nothing more painful) and, after discharge, I spent eighteen months as an out patient at Fort Miley...so yeah, I've been there and done that.

I personally know four people who get a VA disability payment, and between them they served less than a year. Hell, I've been offered a disability pension through Swords to Plowshares, a veterans' rights group, based upon me being unemployable (I had been in the "underground economy" for several years.)

I also know a retired E-9 w/ 30 in who's getting his benefits cut, and that's a travesty- one caused by abuses in the system.

Now Wrag, tell me about your service- How long were you in? What branch? How did your condition get diagnosed as caused by Agent Orange? Oh, and how old are you? When were you in-country?

[Airhead]

Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Airhead makes a valid point but then goes way beyond the line by using this minor point to generalize and demean the far greater majority for the actions of the few and the system that let them slip through.

BS!!! I didn't demean anybody, ESPECIALLY Vets, and ESPECIALLY Vets who are truly disabled.

The rule as it stood before was that ANY person who served between something like 1964-1975, who was discharged with a general discharge, the most common type of discharge issued for miscreant behavior, regardless of length of service, could collect a VA disability pension for the flimsiest of reasons, years later.

That's the gist of my contribution to this thread, and you and Wrag attack me on a personal level for saying this? And twist what I said to make me look anti-Vet?

Kiss my arse, both of you. Clowns.

[Bodhi]

Originally posted by wrag
If a politicain is in anyway disabled during their period of service they get their FULL retirement AND their FULL disability.  The fact that they do't pay into or get Social Security but get their own special retirement is another thing altogether.

Congressmen and women do pay into the social security fund just like everyone else.  

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/pensions.asp

They also collect disabilty benefits as any other civilian does as that fund is called the Federal Disability Insurance Trust Fund, and is to an extent part of the SS fund.  

Now I am not saying that I do not agree with you that disabled vets deserve full compensation, I am saying, try getting your facts straight.  

The fact that the veterans fund is horribly abused is correct and extremely sad.  Try seeing that the gov't crack down on those abusing it, and maybe then, they can keep funding those that truly need it.  Because at the end of the day, tons of things need to be cut to bring this overspent budget of ours under control.  Sadly, I see veterans who need it being hurt, while others pilfer from the system as usual.

[Gunslinger]

Beleive it or not the abuse still happens.

I know guys that get discharged all the time for "injuries" and get medical treatment the rest of their lives.  The cost on the system is staggering and it increases exponetially (SP).

Air head is right.....alot of true disabled vets get benifits slashed because of the abuse of these few.

[rabbidrabbit]

Originally posted by Airhead
BS!!! I didn't demean anybody, ESPECIALLY Vets, and ESPECIALLY Vets who are truly disabled.

The rule as it stood before was that ANY person who served between something like 1964-1975, who was discharged with a general discharge, the most common type of discharge issued for miscreant behavior, regardless of length of service, could collect a VA disability pension for the flimsiest of reasons, years later.

That's the gist of my contribution to this thread, and you and Wrag attack me on a personal level for saying this? And twist what I said to make me look anti-Vet?

Kiss my arse, both of you. Clowns.

Dear arse clown.  Up to this post here you made no such distinction. This was despite it repeatedly being brought to your attention.  I guess we can just chock it up to poor communication then since we seem to agree.

[Airhead]

Blow me.

[rabbidrabbit]

Sorry, I'm just not smitten by your charm.  I hear you can find such services in the phone book since you not seeming to be able to get it for free.

Next time try being clearer in your position instead of being so offensive then backing back and declaring it was your position all along and you will have no issue with me.