Author Topic: Sigh.....  (Read 2096 times)

Offline Balsy

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« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2005, 06:11:51 AM »
Morpheus,

Do you have the same MB???

Offline mechanic

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« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2005, 06:50:39 AM »
hate to be 'my system runs sweet all in ya face' but.....

im running:

AMD 64 2.2ghz cpu
ATI radeon 9800
1gig DDR ram
soundblaster 5.1

at:

1280X1024 res

1024 textures

preload sysmem

with graphics sliders:

level of detail: 1/3 left from full performance
displayed object size: in middle
ground vis range: 1.5k

Frames per second: (set to max of 75hz)

tower: 75
furball 20+ planes: 40-50
under 1k above trees: 30-40
under 1k furball 20+ planes: 25-35
GV mode: 15-30


i just dont understand how your mega systems cant do this.



but then, my net conect sucks big time, and joystick is a POS, so i take the rough with the smooth.
And I don't know much, but I do know this. With a golden heart comes a rebel fist.

storch

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« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2005, 06:53:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mechanic
hate to be 'my system runs sweet all in ya face' but.....

im running:

AMD 64 2.2ghz cpu
ATI radeon 9800
1gig DDR ram
soundblaster 5.1

at:

1280X1024 res

1024 textures

preload sysmem

with graphics sliders:

level of detail: 1/3 left from full performance
displayed object size: in middle
ground vis range: 1.5k

Frames per second: (set to max of 75hz)

tower: 75
furball 20+ planes: 40-50
under 1k above trees: 30-40
under 1k furball 20+ planes: 25-35
GV mode: 15-30


i just dont understand how your mega systems cant do this.



but then, my net conect sucks big time, and joystick is a POS, so i take the rough with the smooth.


meh.  you are always instigating trouble.  :D

Offline 38ruk

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« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2005, 09:18:28 AM »
First of all , people have different levels playabilty , i dont like to see any type of slow down in my system .   Alot of people are saying their system runs fine, slow downs to 20 -30 fps is not fine in my book . Ive seen as low as 40fps with my system 1280X 1024, 512 textures  4 AA . Ive seen where people say that anything above 30 fps the human eye cant see, well i can tell a difference between 60fps and 75fps . Roll a plane at 75fps then roll at 60 fps , 75 is much smoother and seems faster to me .  

Humble my system is getting 70,087 in aquamark and 11,245 in 3dmk03 our systems are basically the same except i have an audigy 2 soundcard  so for using the onboard your system seems fine as far as benches go . i notice a better , less fluctuating frame rate by going with th audigy2 over the ac97 on the nforce 3 board .  

I really like what HTC has done with the game . Its got to be hard to balance new features vs playablility, but at this point my system isnt  high end , but if im having some issues , i really feel for some of the players who have an older rig ...... 38

AMD 64 3400+
x800 PRO  (535 core 500 mem)
1 gig corsair 3200 CL2
Audigy 2

Offline LTARokit

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« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2005, 01:10:49 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Because your monitor cannot show frame rates in excess of your monitors refresh rate.  
.  If you have vsync on and are getting those 100+ frame rates, I bow to your superior equipment and apologize.

_____________________________ _____________

Well obviously we are talking about two completely different screen rates.  the rate I'm speaking of shows at the top of your screen every time you log on.  My posting wasn't to offend or BS, it was to inform and offer info that may or may not help others.  So am I going to brag on my rig.....hell yes....considering not more than six months ago I showed an average of 9 frames to zero frames (top of the screen).

Again, SCREEN reads high fr most of time.  VSYNC IS NOT ON.  And quite frankly have been advised to leave OFF, by someone who knows a whole lot more bout puters than me.  Again bad days & good days.....and that's after the new updates.

Bad Days:  Only on certain maps, like the one for last night.  Logged in late, less than 200 players.  FR low, screen skipping, stuttering, little bit of lag, little bit of warping.  On the most cleared up after about 30 - 45 minutes of play.

I've found bad days revolve around 2 or 3 certain maps only, why........????  AGAIN as stated before I'm no puter expert, never claimed to be (unlike others).

So Star, evidently you wentn't able to answer my earlier question, maybe too busy being arrogant.  So I'll open the question to the thread:  Why turn Vsync on if it has such a negative effect on Frame Rate??  Mine is off and I show a good frame rate   (top of the screen....Star....Top of the screen), and on most have more good days than bad.

LTARokit

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2005, 02:29:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LTARokit
__________________________________________

Well obviously we are talking about two completely different screen rates.  the rate I'm speaking of shows at the top of your screen every time you log on.  My posting wasn't to offend or BS, it was to inform and offer info that may or may not help others.  So am I going to brag on my rig.....hell yes....considering not more than six months ago I showed an average of 9 frames to zero frames (top of the screen).

Again, SCREEN reads high fr most of time.  VSYNC IS NOT ON.  And quite frankly have been advised to leave OFF, by someone who knows a whole lot more bout puters than me.  Again bad days & good days.....and that's after the new updates.

Bad Days:  Only on certain maps, like the one for last night.  Logged in late, less than 200 players.  FR low, screen skipping, stuttering, little bit of lag, little bit of warping.  On the most cleared up after about 30 - 45 minutes of play.

I've found bad days revolve around 2 or 3 certain maps only, why........????  AGAIN as stated before I'm no puter expert, never claimed to be (unlike others).

So Star, evidently you wentn't able to answer my earlier question, maybe too busy being arrogant.  So I'll open the question to the thread:  Why turn Vsync on if it has such a negative effect on Frame Rate??  Mine is off and I show a good frame rate   (top of the screen....Star....Top of the screen), and on most have more good days than bad.

LTARokit


We arent talking about 2 different things.  Wasnt trying to come across as arrogant, but it does tend to irritate me when there are plenty of resources available that tell you why its a bad thing to do.  I'd trust Skuzzy's opinion about game related issues before I'd trust a hundred guys in the arena.  Because I've been a "support tech", and done repairs and fixes on other people's stuff, and I've seen just how much the "expert" at home knows about his system.  Enough to cause problems.  Thats why there's always going to be a good market for guys to do low level support and repairs.  You claimed not to be an expert and thats cool.  You dont have to be.  But you need to know there are more sources of information than your friends.  And they can be wrong.  

Now, I obviously wasnt clear on the issue and I apologize.  I'll try to make it more clear for you.  The frame rate number you see when you log into AH is the frame rates that your video card reports it is putting out.  If it says 100, it is telling you that it is drawing 100 frames per second.  However, if your monitor's refresh rate is set at 85, it only refreshes (or redraws) your screen 85 times per second.  So you can never view more than 85 frames per second, no matter how many your card says its putting out.  If you look at the post Skuzzy made (and I copied to here), you will see how he explains how many problems that can cause when your card is drawing 100+ frames per second but your monitor can only display 85.  

I have seen guys in several forums that brag how many fps they can get in different games with vsync off, and so think this must be a good thing.  So they advise all their friends to turn it off too, thinking its a tool that gives them a big boost in frame rates.  

Let me give you an analogy.  Lets say you had a switch on your tachometer in your car.  In one position, "normal", it shows the actual RPMs of the engine.  In the other position, "MAX", it does a little "diagnostic routine", and tells you the max RPMs your engine can turn.  Useful thing to know right?  But for everyday driving, dont you want to know the actual RPM's of the engine?  I mean, the MAX setting is great for troubleshooting, it might be able to warn you if things are getting loose, or dirty, or needs maintenance if the max RPM number drops, but its really useless for hopping in your car and driving down the street.  So why would you use it?  

I realize thats not a perfect analogy, but it serves the purpose.  And I do apologize if I came off as arrogant.  It was never my intention.

Offline Clifra Jones

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« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2005, 03:06:07 PM »
Quote

I've been considering upgrading to a newer 6600 series 256MB video card this month, along with a 21" monitor. I'm serious when I say I'm now hesitant to upgrade. The card will be over $150 shipped, money I can spend on something else if it won't make AH II even better.
[/B]


I just put a 6600GT 128mb in my system.
Intel 2.0Ghz
Intel Mobo (4x AGP)
Soundblaster live
1gb ram.

My fps hovers around 40-50 and drops to about 30 in low furballs. What I have seen with the new card is that the FPS does not drop radically in the low furballs and I no longer get the pronounces studdering. Installing the latest nVidia drivers cured some disconnect problems.

I preload textures but not skins and I am not using hardly any video ram. So I don't know how much help a more video ram would be. I think my main bottleneck is that my mobo only supports 4x agp.

Offline bustr

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« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2005, 03:22:57 PM »
Intel 850E chipset
Intel P4 3.06Ghz HT enabled
1G RAMBUS PC1066
ATI 9700 Pro 128
Viewsonic 21in Monitor 1024x768 @ 120Mhz

With the release of 2.03 untill the latest patch when I made a change in the texture and detail sliders I went from a minimum FPS of 60 to Maximum of 120 in the game, down to min 8 in some cases max 109. I found my FPS went to the chits when I was close to the gound and had more than about 6 planes around.

I moved my top two sliders 3/4 of the way to the right into performance and my frame rates came back to 60min and 120 max. Is the AH 2.03 coad handeled freindlier by Intel systems????
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline 38ruk

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« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2005, 03:29:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LTARokit
__________________________________________



So Star, evidently you wentn't able to answer my earlier question, maybe too busy being arrogant.  So I'll open the question to the thread:  Why turn Vsync on if it has such a negative effect on Frame Rate??  Mine is off and I show a good frame rate   (top of the screen....Star....Top of the screen), and on most have more good days than bad.

LTARokit


He already answered your ?   you just didnt take the time to read it .........   38





Originally posted by Skuzzy
There are a number of factors involved with accurate frame draws as it relates to FPS. A video card has many options available to determine what should be drawn on the display at any given moment.
When a game displays the FPS, it is displaying the rate at which it can render a frame. Just because a game renders it, does not mean that frame is actually being displayed on the video display.

Now it gets complicated. When vsync is enabled, you are assured that every frame rendered is displayed, as long as the video subsystem properly honors vsync. So what is a game doing when it cannot shove data to the video card during a frame draw?
Well, it depends on how many frame buffers a game allocates and if the frame buffers are full or not when the game wants to render a frame. It also depends on how the video subsystem (hardware/driver) decides it wants to handle it.
Sometimes a video card can stall the data delivery so a frame will not be missed, sometimes it might throw away a frame buffer to allow the game to continue. Really hard to know as it is dependent on the video subsystem.
Most of the time a video subsystem will make the best attempt to make sure the video frames are rendered so they do not miss any data, which keeps the video smooth and accurate.

Without vsync, a video subsystem has several options available. It can overwrite the video frame, which will typically cause 'tearing' in the video display due to mismatched frames being partially overlayed.
The video susbsystem may opt to finish a current frame buffer and overwrite previous buffers, which can cause some jerkiness in the motion of objects, but this method eliminates the 'tearing' effect.
A game could also send the same frame over and over again, if the update information is not available for the next frame. This last item can lead to some intersting visuals. For instance, in an online game, the object in your view needs a packet update from a server to be placed accurately in its environment. If you are running insane frame rates, your player/object could get updatred many times while game code simply extrapolates the remote object position. Suddenly a packet update arrives and the extrapolation may not have been accurate and the remote object jumps.
Your position, which the remote player has not gotten yet coupld also jump as while you are running insane frame rates and your object has been moving around, the remote player does not see it until he gets a packet update.
Now, both of you are out of sync, which can cause perception of lag, when in fact, it is a video synchronization problem and may not have a thing to do with lag. This can be more exaggerated with very high CPU speeds as well.

Keep in mind, I am not specifically talking about Aces High. Just the overall effect running without vsync can have on a multi-player game.

Offline Clifra Jones

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« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2005, 03:31:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by LTARokit
__________________________________________

Well obviously we are talking about two completely different screen rates.  the rate I'm speaking of shows at the top of your screen every time you log on.  My posting wasn't to offend or BS, it was to inform and offer info that may or may not help others.  So am I going to brag on my rig.....hell yes....considering not more than six months ago I showed an average of 9 frames to zero frames (top of the screen).

Again, SCREEN reads high fr most of time.  VSYNC IS NOT ON.  And quite frankly have been advised to leave OFF, by someone who knows a whole lot more bout puters than me.  Again bad days & good days.....and that's after the new updates.

Bad Days:  Only on certain maps, like the one for last night.  Logged in late, less than 200 players.  FR low, screen skipping, stuttering, little bit of lag, little bit of warping.  On the most cleared up after about 30 - 45 minutes of play.

I've found bad days revolve around 2 or 3 certain maps only, why........????  AGAIN as stated before I'm no puter expert, never claimed to be (unlike others).

So Star, evidently you wentn't able to answer my earlier question, maybe too busy being arrogant.  So I'll open the question to the thread:  Why turn Vsync on if it has such a negative effect on Frame Rate??  Mine is off and I show a good frame rate   (top of the screen....Star....Top of the screen), and on most have more good days than bad.

LTARokit


Found this on expert exchange, a source I use a lot in my job (i r tec geek)

------
http://www.experts-exchange.com/Miscellaneous/Games/Q_21379660.html

Should the 'vsync' option be kept on or turned off?

Depends. Do you have a powerful machine? And most importantly, what is the Refresh rate of your monitor?

Vsync forces games to draw exactly as many frames as the monitor can per second, i.e. if you have your monitor running at 85 Hz then it will be forced to draw 85 frames per second - but this will be hard for your machine because it must be able to run the game at 85 fps.

If your machine is not powerful enough then vsync will cause slowdowns (not choppiness, slowdons), as the game will redraw frames to reach 85 fps, recalculating each frame even without game progress.
You can prevent some display errors that way and also force some games to run at more than 60 Hz, and 60 Hz can strain your eyes after a while of playing.

Because I have a rather fast machine and I do not like slowdons in games I usually turn vsync off.
-----

So, I guess the conclusion is that if your system can produce framse faster than your monitor can display them them turning vsync on may be the right thing to do to prevent the problems Scuzzy was talking about (and it may be those issues you mention above) BUT if you cannot produce frames in excess of your monitors refresh rate then vsync is/can be a drag.

Mine is probably on and I cannot produde frames faster than my monitor. I will try turning it off tonight and see what results I get.

Offline LTARokit

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« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2005, 03:37:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2

I realize thats not a perfect analogy, but it serves the purpose.  And I do apologize if I came off as arrogant.  It was never my intention. [/B]

_____________________________ ____________

Yo Star, may not be the perfect analogy, but it's one on my level of understanding.  Thanks....question answered :D

<>

LTARokit,  XO

Offline humble

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« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2005, 05:55:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 38ruk
First of all , people have different levels playabilty , i dont like to see any type of slow down in my system .   Alot of people are saying their system runs fine, slow downs to 20 -30 fps is not fine in my book . Ive seen as low as 40fps with my system 1280X 1024, 512 textures  4 AA . Ive seen where people say that anything above 30 fps the human eye cant see, well i can tell a difference between 60fps and 75fps . Roll a plane at 75fps then roll at 60 fps , 75 is much smoother and seems faster to me .  

Humble my system is getting 70,087 in aquamark and 11,245 in 3dmk03 our systems are basically the same except i have an audigy 2 soundcard  so for using the onboard your system seems fine as far as benches go . i notice a better , less fluctuating frame rate by going with th audigy2 over the ac97 on the nforce 3 board .  

I really like what HTC has done with the game . Its got to be hard to balance new features vs playablility, but at this point my system isnt  high end , but if im having some issues , i really feel for some of the players who have an older rig ...... 38

AMD 64 3400+
x800 PRO  (535 core 500 mem)
1 gig corsair 3200 CL2
Audigy 2


I've got everything "stock" as of now....when I OC'd Igot higher bench marks but didnt notice more then a couple of FPS difference in game...wasnt worth the heat for a such a minimum gain IMO.

When Irechecked everything Inoticed Iwasnt loading everything into memory....that seems to have helped alot....looks like I'm up to ~32-33 FPS for GVing....

MY in air stuff is fine....even in furballs. I do agree the soundcard is an issue. I've got 2 or 3 lying around so I'll swap one out soon as I get right drivers for it....

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Offline aztec

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« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2005, 06:10:44 PM »
So what if you're seeing rediculous framerates> 190 FPS clear blue climbout to 15 FPS on the deck...not near anything but trees, and you have vsync on? Thats my situation.

Offline Balsy

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« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2005, 07:29:31 AM »
aztec,

That just means you have tree-sync on.

:lol

Balsy

Offline Balsy

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« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2005, 07:29:56 AM »
aztec,

That just means you have tree-sync on.

:lol

Balsy