Author Topic: the struggle high over Pennsylvania  (Read 3937 times)

Offline Karnak

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the struggle high over Pennsylvania
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2001, 07:31:00 AM »
Skurj,

It wasn't shot down.  USAF says that no airliners were shot down.

Add to that tha a passenger called his wife to tell her he loved her, goodbye and that he and two other passengers were going to try to retake the plane.

It went down either in the control of a terrorist in order to cause some damage because they were about to be overpowered.

Or:

During the struggle it went out of control and crashed.

Or:

Somebody got control briefly and put it in the ground to protect those on the ground where the terrorists wanted to crash it.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Mickey1992

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the struggle high over Pennsylvania
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2001, 07:47:00 AM »
The flight path of the plane showed that it actually made it to north-central Ohio before it turned back heading east over Pennsylvania.

Offline SKurj

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« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2001, 01:01:00 PM »
believe what u will...  
My belief is it was shot down, and never ever will evidence come out to support that.  The made for TV movie due out in 2 months will further bastardize the tale no doubt.

SKurj

Offline Badger

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« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2001, 01:14:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak:
.....Add to that tha a passenger called his wife to tell her he loved her, goodbye and that he and two other passengers were going to try to retake the plane.

It went down either in the control of a terrorist in order to cause some damage because they were about to be overpowered.

Just for the record although I stand to be corrected, I don't believe there was any other cell call from Flight 93 other than the one referred to in this CNN clip.  A man called his mother and said he loved her, but no mention of rushing the terrorists to re-take the plane.

 http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2001/09/12/vosot.family.911.ktvu.med.html

If there was some other call, I'd be interested in the reference link or source of facts.

Thanks.

Edit: If link times out, try it later as all CNN News links have been sporadic for obvious reasons.

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Badger ]

Offline Karnak

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the struggle high over Pennsylvania
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2001, 01:51:00 PM »
Badger,

It was a differnet call.  They mentioned that one too.

It was on the TV news so I can't link to it.

Skurj,

Witnesses on the ground reported that the aircraft appeared and sounded fine.

If it had been shot down there probably would have been smoke and fire.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Rude

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the struggle high over Pennsylvania
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2001, 02:28:00 PM »
Skurj....

No aircraft exploded in air would leave a crater that large...in addition there were witnessess that saw it intact hitting the ground.

Offline majic

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« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2001, 03:13:00 PM »
I severely doubt that the USAF shot the plane down, but Rude- no air to air missile we have would obliterate an airline in the air, it would only be able to do enough damage to make it unflyable.  Whatever brought the plane down saved countless lives.  Btw- they had the guys mom on TV last night and I believe she said that her son told her they were going to attempt to take the plane back... brave souls.

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2001, 03:29:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak:
Skurj,

It wasn't shot down.  USAF says that no airliners were shot down.

Add to that tha a passenger called his wife to tell her he loved her, goodbye and that he and two other passengers were going to try to retake the plane.

It went down either in the control of a terrorist in order to cause some damage because they were about to be overpowered.

Or:

During the struggle it went out of control and crashed.

Or:

Somebody got control briefly and put it in the ground to protect those on the ground where the terrorists wanted to crash it.

Moments after the interview with the mother who's rugby-playing son sitting in first class phoned his mother(on the AirPhone, he was using his wifes flight pass I believe) and told her what was going on, this was the scenario which I believe closely matches what actually happened, I'm sure the terrorists were overwhelmed by passengers, and the cabin door was breached, either the terrorist flying augered the plane (Most likely scenario, put it in a powerdive, makes the guy behind you go back!) or the one of the pilots were still alive and struggled with the controls.

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Ripsnort ]

Offline Ripsnort

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the struggle high over Pennsylvania
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2001, 03:33:00 PM »
I might add that Camp David, and the '2nd pentagon'..place that is a back up facility just south of Camp David, were also 'potential targets' in its last flight path.

Offline Dinger

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« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2001, 05:11:00 PM »
A couple hours ago, CNN "Broke" the additional details of the story that were being reported elsewhere:
The flight path shows the plane being turned around in Western PA and started heading for Washington.  A passenger named Glick (I believe) phoned his wife, who then confluffied 911.  He reported the plane was hijacked; wife mentioned hijacked plane had hit WTC.  He goes away from airphone for a minute, then comes back and says that he took a vote of all the males on board, and they were going to try to retake control of the A/C.  Then he hung up.
Sounds like they died heroes.

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2001, 05:25:00 PM »
Better to die fighting than cowering.

<S> to the passengers who fought the animals that took their flight!

Mav
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Offline Tuomio

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« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2001, 06:59:00 PM »
Its highly unlikely for my POV, that the passengers augered the plane themselfs. Think about it, there were 5 armed with knives against 60 angry passengers.

This is the scenario:

1.theres 2 men in the cabins, 3 in the back guarding the passengers.

2.Passengers attack after negotiating it with amongs themselfs.

3.3 guarding hijackers maybe stab one or two, but are eventually knocked out and prolly killed (i would twist hijackers neck if i were them)

4. other of the "pilots" see whats happening and close the cabin door.

5.They do the only thing they can and push the nose down, intended crash, very likely pre-issued plan B.

I think the passengers never reached the pilots cabins, the pilot knew they wouldnt make it to the target. Muslims go straight to paradise when they commit suicide in holy terrorist act like this, so it wasnt hard decision for them.
Remember, these preparations took several years, they were fully teached how to act in different kind of situations.
When youre hijacking plane with swiss army knives, you can be very certain, that problems may occur and they knew it.

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2001, 07:05:00 PM »
I rather doubt that Camp David was a target. It's relatively small and not easily recognizable from the air.
sand

Offline AKDejaVu

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the struggle high over Pennsylvania
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2001, 07:27:00 PM »
Tuomio,

Nobody is saying the people on the plane crashed it to avoid hitting something else.

All that is apparent is that these people decided it was better to fight the hijackers than to allow the plane to be used as a bomb resulting in all of their deaths at a minimum.  Whatever happened after that ended with the plane crashing into a field as opposed to the White House.  For that alone, the people on board are heroes.  Heroes that died fighting as opposed to letting terrorists kill them while they sat docile.

AKDejaVu

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2001, 07:32:00 PM »
In fact, the news reports state that three passengers on flight 93 overpowered the hijackers but were unable to maintain control of the aircraft.
sand