the struggle high over Pennsylvania

[Karnak]

Tuomio,

It should be noted that Muslims go straight to paradise when they commit suicide in holy terrorist act like this only in the opinion of the extreme fringe radicals of Islam.

According to the vast majority of Muslims, people who do this, irrespective of their claimed faith, go straight to Hell.


<S> to the passengers and crew of Flight 93 who decided to fight rather than die like sheep. Their sacrifice was not in vain.

[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]

[Octavius]

Originally posted by Karnak:
Skurj,

It wasn't shot down.  USAF says that no airliners were shot down.

Add to that tha a passenger called his wife to tell her he loved her, goodbye and that he and two other passengers were going to try to retake the plane.

It went down either in the control of a terrorist in order to cause some damage because they were about to be overpowered.

Or:

During the struggle it went out of control and crashed.

Or:

Somebody got control briefly and put it in the ground to protect those on the ground where the terrorists wanted to crash it.

But why would they do that unless they knew the terrorist's intentions?  How would you know the exact target?  Think of self preservation...  I'll explain:  I'm sure the pilots had no clue of the other simultaneous hijackings.  For all they knew this could just be a generic hijacking:  Terrorists hijack a plane in order for their demands to be met or just to get home and make some sort of statement.  But if you knew their suicidal intentions, would you automatically do the ultimate sacrifice and point the nose into the dirt?  Put yourself in the pilot's position:

You become engaged in a struggle with terrorists.  You and the passengers likely outnumber them.  The news networks said they were armed with knives and pepper spray.  There is a possibility you and the passengers would be able to subdue the terrorists and fly to safety.  I'm sure this wouldn't play out like a Bond movie where the bad guys tell them their "Master Plan" and give you the targets and intentions.  If I was the pilot I certainly wouldn't give up and crash teh damn thing, i'd put up a fight!  If were to be, say, mortally wounded, I would then make the ultimate sacrifice and take the terrorists down with the passengers and the plane in order to save thousands of lives.  There is no way to tell what they were thinking or how it really played out at this point.  We will just have to wait til they find the black box.  I hope you understand what I mean.  

oct out.

(sorry for any mistakes in this post, i dont have time to proof read it  )

[Karnak]

Octavius,

If you read this thread, the latter parts of it anyways, it seems the following took place:

1) The hijackers gained control as they had on the other three flights.

2) A passenger phoned his wife using his cell phone and his wife informed him of what had happened in NY.

3) The passengers, now armed with the knowlege of the hijacker's intentions, decided to try to retake the aircraft.

4) The aircraft crashed in PA, most likely done intentionally by the terrorists when they realized they were going to lose control of the aircraft.

[Dinger]

Karnak, the overwhelming number of people who call themselves Muslims make a distinction between being a martyr and killing innocent people of whatever faith.  LEt's face it, this slaughter isn't going to convert anyone to Islam.  Nor is it going to further the cause of Islam in the world.  Muslims are, like Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Confucians, and members of the other religions in the world, decent people with basic human values.  So most Muslims are not under the illusion that these guys are going to Paradise.  For if they are, moral humans of all religions are compelled to spit on a God who would establish such a world.

Some notes from CNN breaking report on flight 93:

mic left open to ATC.  shouting heard in cockpit. Someone yells "get out of here"
microphone off. scuffling. yelll "get out of here"
English in ARabic accent: "There is a bomb on board. this is the captain speaking. remain in your seat. Stay quiet, we are meeting their demands. We are returning to the airport."

[Badger]

Originally posted by Karnak:
Badger, It was a differnet call.  They mentioned that one too.

Thanks.... I wasn't aware of that one.

Really sad....  

As a Canadian, I feel frustrated, angry and saddened that there isn't something tangible I can do personally to help all of the suffering.  My emotions range from wanting to get in a car and go there to help dig through rubble, to wanting to volunteer for re-enlistment somewhere across the border after almost 30 years of retirement.  Somehow I don't think they would want an old guy.

My thoughts and prayers go out to all of the victims and their families.

God bless America and all the values and shining principles of freedom she stands for.

[Eagler]

real heroes on this flight..

only God knows how many lives their sacrifice has saved...

<S> Jeremy Glick, Thomas Burnett & the others

 
 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14344-2001Sep11.html

[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: Eagler ]

[Eagler]

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