Author Topic: Biggin Hill Airshow Crashes  (Read 3055 times)

Offline snafu

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Biggin Hill Airshow Crashes
« on: June 04, 2001, 06:09:00 PM »
Hi All,
 I'm suprised this has not been posted elsewhere (If it has I cannot find it).

This weekend there were a total of 3 fatalities at the Biggin Hill Airshow in Kent (UK). On Saturday a Vampire crashed killing both crew members and on the Sunday a P63 Kingcobra crashed while attempting what appeared to be a loop with insufficient speed. (I know a number of AH flyers were planning to go to this years show. Do any of them have anything to add). Listening to the news reports the usual "Old aircraft should be banned" "Unsafe" etc has of course reared it's head. It is unlikely that the cause of the P63 crash will ever be known because as can be seen from the images there would have been very little left to analyse.

My sympathy goes out to the families of all the pilots involved.  

 

 

(Photo's from Daily newspaper - without permission)
snafu

SeaWulfe

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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2001, 06:53:00 PM »
My money is on he was either in a near stall situation and didn't have sufficient airspeed to pull out (as you said), or he went into an accelerated stall in the pull out and despite the obviously large amount of deflection on the elevators, both wings were stalled out so he didn't have any lift.

These aircraft aren't unsafe, they won a world war and made many men heroes.
-SW

Offline DmdBT

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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2001, 07:24:00 PM »
Hate to lose one of the precious few FLYABLE historic aircraft we have to these "stunt show" antics. When are these owners/operators going to wake up and realize they are flying pieces of history and not some CAP 232 or similar stuntplane?Does the crowd really expect or demand to see these things put through such maneuvers or are they content to get a chance to see them in the air doing flybys?

Furthermore, can just anyone with the cash purchase a plane like these and fly it around or are there special licensing and flight training restrictions? What a pity to lose such a beautiful and rare aircraft.

Oh yeah, condolences to the pilot's family... no metal can replace or come near the worth of a human life.  

Lonz


Offline Maverick

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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2001, 12:37:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by DmdBT:
Hate to lose one of the precious few FLYABLE historic aircraft we have to these "stunt show" antics. When are these owners/operators going to wake up and realize they are flying pieces of history and not some CAP 232 or similar stuntplane?Does the crowd really expect or demand to see these things put through such maneuvers or are they content to get a chance to see them in the air doing flybys?

Furthermore, can just anyone with the cash purchase a plane like these and fly it around or are there special licensing and flight training restrictions? What a pity to lose such a beautiful and rare aircraft.

Oh yeah, condolences to the pilot's family... no metal can replace or come near the worth of a human life.  

Lonz



Lonz,

Europe and Britain have some of the most anal retentive licensing laws regarding flying. Special instruction and clearances are a must. The does not preclude acts of stupidity or ignorance. The pilot may have had a malfunction too in which he was out of options. My GUESS is he simply had too little altitude for the maneuver. It may have been something as simple and forgetting to set his altimeter that led him to do a loop too low.

Even in the US you must be type rated in heavy iron. A simple private pilots license won't be enough to fly a heavy warbird. Cubs, bird dogs and other related craft are not heavy even if they are a warbird.

No matter how much training a pilot gets they are still subject to the foibles of being human and do occasionally screw up. Hopefully they will get away with it and learn. Others like this hapless pilot pay the full price.

Sympathies to the family.

Mav
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Offline Sparks

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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2001, 01:46:00 AM »
A tragic accident indeed  

An interesting point is the fuel trails which appear to be coming from vents on the lower surface of the wing undersides at the mid span position.  If you look at the starboard side the plume it appears to be at a much higher relative angle to the wing and disperesed more than the port side which seems to suggest the starboard wing was stalled and he had spun - probably an acclerated stall on the pullout realising he was too close to the ground and attempting to correct it by pulling too hard.

My thoughts are why are there so many accidents at Biggin Hill - remember the Invader rolling in, the Spitfire last year - perhaps someone should be looking at the organisation and flight envelopes imposed on these dispaly pilots. Compare it to Mildenhall or the International Air Tattoo - years of two day shows without a mishap but under military organisation and discipline.

My condolences to the families of the pilots who died this weekend.

Sparks

Offline Swoop

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« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2001, 01:49:00 AM »
If you watch the video of the King Cobra crash, the pilot does a half roll on the downside of the loop......wasted a good 50ft doing that, then bellied it in.  Dunno why he did the half roll, if he'd just continued pulling out he'd have been fine.  

Will wait for investigation results......

 

Offline Sparks

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« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2001, 01:59:00 AM »
Haven't seen the video but I bet the half roll wasn't intentional but was induced by the accelerated stall - start of the spin - if it stopped rolling he may have started corrective action but ran out of alt.

Offline Bombjack

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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2001, 05:02:00 AM »
I have seen the video and you're exactly right Sparks.

Offline Mickey1992

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« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2001, 08:52:00 AM »
It gets worse:
Spitfire pilot dies in French airshow crash
 http://uk.news.yahoo.com/010604/80/btrek.html

Offline CyranoAH

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« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2001, 09:10:00 AM »
Sometimes it's just the plane... I can still remember Mark Hannah's crash at the airfield I usually fly (Barcelona-Sabadell <LELL> ). There hasn't been conclusive evidence to support it, but he asked to land in the runway opposite to the one he had been cleared to land, so I guess he felt something was wrong with the Me109.

My condolences to the families of the pilots  

Daniel, aka Cyrano

Offline MarkVZ

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« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2001, 03:35:00 PM »
Snafu,
Thanks for the images.  

It's always amazed me that the news is so willing to show a pilot's last seconds on earth, letting viewers watch the poor soul go up in a ball of flames, yet we are forbidden to watch death-row executions of scumball murderers.  I'm not advocating the televising of death row executions, but I just think that more respect should be shown towards those lost in crashes.  If an airliner crashed, would you like to see images of your loved ones dying on the nightly news?

Anyways, on another board, someone who was watching said the P-63 pilot performed the same loop manauever earlier and just avoided a spin due to low airspeed.  It seems the 2nd time it bit him  

I agree fully with the accelerated stall explanation.  I didn't see the video, but it appears that he had full elevator deflection at the time of the crash.  Perhaps it was just a last-second attempt to survive after conventional spin recovery failed.  We will probably never know.

Mark VanZwoll

Offline Jigster

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« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2001, 03:47:00 PM »
Just a note, but most of the vintage aircraft pilots are former Airforce pilots with their respective countries.

I know in the US, 80% of all warbird pilots of all eras are retired/special assignment USAF personnel. In the Confederate Airforce, this is a requirement, in addition to some other standards.

In addition, those that haven't had this kind of military training have to get through some pretty tough regulations to retain the license required to fly this class of aircraft, along with the air show preformence regs.

It's very strict in the US, I'm not sure how it is in Europe. I know in some places the preformence regulations are much looser.

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2001, 05:46:00 PM »
Some of you will pull your head in (dmdbt)...on the Vampire crash (dude was a Kiwi):
Sir Ken's sons insisted Biggin Hill air show went on - report
05 June 2001

Flying continued at London's Biggin Hill air show after New Zealander Sir Kenneth Hayr and his crewman were killed in a fiery crash on Saturday on the express wishes of Sir Kenneth's three sons, it was reported yesterday.
But organisers were forced to abandon the event on Sunday after a second pilot died when his World War 2 fighter nose-dived into trees and erupted into a fireball metres from the main stand.

Air Marshal Sir Kenneth, a former British Deputy Chief of Defence, and his copilot and engineer, Jonathon Kerr, were killed instantly when their 1950s De Havilland Vampire went out of control during a two-plane stunt and crashed.

The Vampire disintegrated on impact, setting fire to trees and bushes.

The Times newspaper in Britain reported yesterday the show continued on the wishes of Sir Kenneth's three sons and Mr Kerr's family but the organisers cancelled remaining events after Sunday's second crash.

A full review of safety proceedings is expected after the weekend's tragedies.

A crowd of 50,000 spectators watched as the World War 2 Bell Kingcobra involved in Sunday's accident stalled at the top of a loop and failed to regain power.

Witnesses said that the pilot tried to pull the aircraft away from the main stand. He had not been named on Sunday night, although it is believed the plane is registered in Duxford, Cambridgeshire.

The American-built aircraft was the only one of its kind still flying in Britain and had recently undergone renovation work.

Chief Superintendent Gerry Howlett said the 40-year-old pilot was experienced.

Air accident investigators were called in to sift through both sets of wreckage in an attempt to find the reasons behind the crashes.

Meanwhile, in a tribute to Sir Kenneth, Britain's Daily Telegraph newspaper said he held senior positions in the RAF during both the Falklands campaign and the Gulf War.

"His abiding passion, however, was piloting fighter aircraft," the newspaper said.

Since retirement, Sir Kenneth had divided his life between his homes in New Zealand and Britain in order that he would get the best of two summers and could fly throughout the year. He was particularly enthusiastic about undertaking aerobatics in either of two Russian Yak 52 aircraft which he kept near his Whangaparoa, north Auckland, house.

Kenneth William Hayr was born on April 13, 1935 at St Heliers, Auckland, and educated at Auckland Grammar School before attending RAF College, Cranwell.

After honing his fighter skills with Hawker Hunter and English Electric Lightning jet squadrons in the Middle East between 1957 and 1964, Sir Kenneth transferred to the Central Fighter Establishment/Fighter Command Trials Unit. He served there from 1964 to 1967, before becoming Phantom OCU Squadron Commander at Coningsby, Lincolnshire, the following year. Thereafter he concentrated on piloting the Hawker-Siddeley Harrier.

In 1980, Sir Kenneth attended the Royal College of Defence Studies before his appointment as Assistant Chief of Air Staff (Operations), a post he held for the next two years. During this period he was instrumental in planning the RAF's role in the Falklands War.

Sir Kenneth then took command, in 1982, as AOC No 11 Group before being appointed, in 1985, commander of British Forces in Cyprus and administrator of the sovereign base areas on the Mediterranean island.

He returned after two years as Chief of Staff UK air forces and deputy commander-in-chief, Strike Command, until 1988.

Finally, in 1989, he was appointed Deputy Chief of Defence staff (commitments) which involved preparing and implementing Operation Granby – the code-name for the RAF's role in the Desert Shield and Desert Storm Arabian Gulf operations. He retired in 1993.

Sir Kenneth was appointed chairman of the New Zealand Aviation Heritage Trust in 1993. He was awarded the AFC in 1963 and Bar in 1972. He was appointed CBE in 1976, CB in 1982, KCB in 1988 and KBE in 1991. He was awarded the Kuwait Liberation Order (1st Grade) in 1991.

A courteous and popular man, with a slightly old-fashioned air, Sir Kenneth was respected as one of the best pilots in the RAF. He was always eager to get his hands on any airborne craft, and counted paragliding and parachuting, as well as display aerobatics, among his hobbies.

In 1971, he married Joyce Gardiner, who died in 1987. They had three sons.