Author Topic: A Suggestion To HiTech  (Read 1947 times)

Offline Grizzly

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A Suggestion To HiTech
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2005, 09:01:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MANDO
Grizzly, didnt have you flaks and M16 to deffend your base from the ground? Didnt have you planes to set up deffensive CAPs? Can't you take off from another base and go to deffend the attacked one?

Are you one of these quakers that only want to jump inmediately into a gun and start killing risking nothing (even no time) and ruinning, without any effort, the fun of people that, at least, spent several minutes flying to your base?


The flak and m16 would be just fine if they were available. As it is it's so easy to take out the VHs one bomber flying over at 30K can take them out with near 100% accuracy. It's rare to see one miss. The field guns are almost worthless. Upping a mass of fighters would be fine if a mass of pilots was available.

How many times have we had a really great battle over some base, hanging on to a base by our fingernails until the hangers come up. Aerial fights filling the skies as the enemy are constantly driven off. How many times have my countrymen heard me compliment them on a great defense. This to me is great fun, and I'm not afraid to fight.

The problem is the massive hordes that rip though the arena capturing bases with impunity. Don't try to tell me you haven't seen this happen, and don't try to tell me there is a defense against it. I'm arguing that this type of game play should not be encouraged by the official in arena capture objective. But if it must be that way, then give us the tools to defend our bases against it.

Offline Grizzly

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« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2005, 09:11:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by me62
There is not one anti-aircraft gun, fixed or mobile that can touch
a high altitude bomber formation.  The M-16's Osti's and the
player operated field guns work good against low flying planes
but high bombers, forget it, might just as well not fire.  And I can't
recall the last time I saw the A/I puffy ack damage a bomber
formation.

Mike
BTMe62


Usually the bombers have a choice, to fly low so they can hit a target easier, or fly high and lose their bombing accuracy. How often have you seen a bomber at 20K miss the VH?

I add another issue, numbers disparity. The team with a lot of players is usually attacking, and the team with the least players is usually defending. So why bias the game against defense? AH is great but it's not perfect.

Offline MANDO

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« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2005, 09:14:19 PM »
If your country fails to deffend a base with GVs and planes, then you better switch to another base, there are a lot of them available most of the time, quite simple. And 30k buffs are the exception, not the norm.

Offline Morpheus

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« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2005, 09:16:37 PM »
Grizz,

Why didnt you just say....

"I can't stand the hordes. The mindless endless Jabo runs that flatten bases with 10:1 odds and capture bases one after another all night."   ....?

Because then' I'd understand your gripe.

Base taking has become the norm. That along with stats and getting a kill are the only things that many players seem to care about. It can be seen on a regular basis. An La7 or 190 or a 51, whatever, comes flying through a base, down the runway at top speed, almost compressed, vulches the first thing that he sees on the runway and speeds off until out of sight. Only to return minutes later to do the same thing all over again. But god forbid a fight ensues and someone dies... Right?

 Understandably so... It is your Aces High virtual rank that pulls the chicks. Right? My point is I understand (I think) what you're trying to get at. Adding a 5" gun on a field wont solve this. It will simply bring more players into a horde, with more bombs, to flatten another object at another base.

There are still players in the game who play for the fight. Win or lose they are there to fight. Not just kill... I think for many of these players the actual kill is secondary to the fight itself. It is for me anyways. Sure its cool or neat to land a whole big bag of kills but its far more enjoyable to fight at the same time.

The only thing you can do is just play your game. And if the tool sheders get in the way, kill them too.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2005, 09:19:45 PM by Morpheus »
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Offline SuperDud

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« Reply #34 on: April 29, 2005, 09:26:37 PM »
I r Teh Whinner
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Offline FDutchmn

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Re: A Suggestion To HiTech
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2005, 09:26:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Grizzly
You have a great game, but I wonder about a few things.

You created a game with the objective of capturing bases. And to facilitate this you have provided limited means to defend these bases. It's difficult to hit anything with the anti-aircraft guns, which seem to suffer greatly from lag, so they become less affective with more action. You dummied up the bombers now so once again they have pinpoint accuracy from great altitudes. And arial defence is often futile because the enemy will eventually attack in massive force to overcome any ability to stop them.

The worse part, which I'm sure is aggravated by your reward for arena capture, is that the most affective means of capturing bases is to avoid or overcome enemy resistance. In real life this would be terrific, but in a game where the fun is fighting each other, this land grab mania is counter productive. After all, if you want a land grab game with little or no defensive capability, why not just design a land grab race game? Oh wait... you did.


I started online flight sims with AW4W, which was derived from the DOS version of AW.  The numbers of the players were low and we were charged by the minute of the duration that we were logged on.  It wasn't even the start of Internet at that time.  We had to dial-up to Compuserve directly then log on.  You can imagine how much we paid for the services back then...

anyway... I agree with Grizzly on this, especially during the hours when the number of players are low in the MA.

I think that the original concept of the map reset or let's term it "winning the war" was designed as an added bonus when AH had its beginnings.  Back then the numbers in the MA was low and reset rarely happened.  So, what did the players do then?  Some wanted to fly for themselves, or some wanted to capture a base anyway, or some wanted to enjoy a furball, or fly in pairs or threes, etc etc etc... when the conditions are right, people got together to "win the war".

Now that we have more players in the MA, conditions have become different, the objective that people have have skewed towards mostly to "win the war".  This is not to say that we cannot find furballs at all or cannot find good dog fights.  However, it is distracting that "winning the war" seems to be the only objective today.   This is the reason why the big maps were introduced in the first place, making it more... shall we say... challenging than it was on the small maps where a horde can over run a smaller country with relative ease.

This is the basis of the discussion and suggestions to make things otherwise should be based on this premesis rather than just say "it's a bad idea".

Quote
Originally posted by Grizzly
I humbly suggest you drop the arena capture initative and let the players set their own game objectives. I can have more fun fighting all night over a single base than swarming across the map grabbing bases by the dozen. Heck, players may as well capture bases offline if they don't want to fight for them. The advantage of online multiplayer games is that the players can provide the opposition, objectives and tactics. By providing the objective you are artificially limiting the game. Base capture is fine, but arena annihilation is simply disruptive.


I agree and I would suggest either a FighterTown as we saw it in the BigPac on AW where three bases (one base from each country was not capturable and if I remember correctly not destructible) or  make only the bases in the center capturable as we saw it in AW4W or AW1.

Quote
Originally posted by Grizzly
I suggest you provide manned flak at the bases, similar to the 5" ship guns.


I think making parts of the map with indestrutible bases is more the solution than providing manned acks.

Quote
Originally posted by Grizzly
I suggest you make the bombers less accurate with altitude with bomb divergence. You don't have to make them go through the hastle of calibrating their bomb sights... just make the accuracy irratic, like it's supposed to be. The way it is now, they can hit pin point targets from 20K, but I can barely hit a fighter flying directly at my field gun.


Simulating inaccuracy by randomization is not what I would go for, because it would making the game not so fun for the bomber pilots.  We play this game because we can get better as we practice.  Randomization will kill this incentive.  Rather, I would like to see more wind layers in the MA, where the bombardier will need to take into account.

Quote
Originally posted by Grizzly
The idea is competition. I like the competition of fighting over bases... but what we have is a competition in capturing bases the fastest.


I agree with this one...

Offline Stang

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« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2005, 09:27:25 PM »
Nothing pleases me more than ruining a rank potatos' day.  Picking him out of the crowd and imagining the sqeeling going on on his country's local vox always brings a smile to my face.

I log on to fight other people, and I'm not talking about furballing.  If you only want to fight inanimate objects and run from every person you come across, this is not the game for you.

Offline Grizzly

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Re: Re: A Suggestion To HiTech
« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2005, 10:31:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FDutchmn
I started online flight sims with AW4W, which was derived from the DOS version of AW.  The numbers of the players were low and we were charged by the minute of the duration that we were logged on.  It wasn't even the start of Internet at that time.  We had to dial-up to Compuserve directly then log on.  You can imagine how much we paid for the services back then...


Hiyas FD, nice seeing you're still around =o)

Offline Midnight

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A Suggestion To HiTech
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2005, 11:38:10 PM »
People like defending bases in mannable guns because it doesn't effect their score when they die.

Offline SuperDud

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« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2005, 11:59:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stang
I log on to fight other people, and I'm not talking about furballing.  If you only want to fight inanimate objects and run from every person you come across, this is not the game for you.



Well I'm out:(
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Offline Fariz

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« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2005, 01:10:06 AM »
Finish him, it is absolutly no hope...

Offline ghi

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« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2005, 02:46:21 AM »
manned  88mm/base, would be nice,
 The AA defence on the bases sux,  good for high speed vulchers,
The 37mm  fp or field gun kills only direct hit not proxi, and is ridiculos hard to hit planes at 200 yards, those auto 88s are useles , just drop the fps

Offline Furball

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« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2005, 02:50:08 AM »
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Offline Simaril

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« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2005, 06:43:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Morpheus
Grizz,

Why didnt you just say....

"I can't stand the hordes. The mindless endless Jabo runs that flatten bases with 10:1 odds and capture bases one after another all night."   ....?

Because then' I'd understand your gripe.

Base taking has become the norm. That along with stats and getting a kill are the only things that many players seem to care about. It can be seen on a regular basis. An La7 or 190 or a 51, whatever, comes flying through a base, down the runway at top speed, almost compressed, vulches the first thing that he sees on the runway and speeds off until out of sight. Only to return minutes later to do the same thing all over again. But god forbid a fight ensues and someone dies... Right?

 Understandably so... It is your Aces High virtual rank that pulls the chicks. Right? My point is I understand (I think) what you're trying to get at. Adding a 5" gun on a field wont solve this. It will simply bring more players into a horde, with more bombs, to flatten another object at another base.

There are still players in the game who play for the fight. Win or lose they are there to fight. Not just kill... I think for many of these players the actual kill is secondary to the fight itself. It is for me anyways. Sure its cool or neat to land a whole big bag of kills but its far more enjoyable to fight at the same time.

The only thing you can do is just play your game. And if the tool sheders get in the way, kill them too.




I just dont thnk there's anything more to say.

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Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2005, 08:55:07 AM »
Round and round and round they go,where they will stop nobody knows.

Althought I usually tend to avoid being part of a horde I enjoy all aspects of the game depending on my mood at the moment.

The game is about whatever you, the individual wants it to be about. Not what anyone here TELLS you its about.

They play the game their way. you play the game yours.

That being said. the feild/base defence setup is a bit,odd.

In some cases its actually easier for an enemy to get to a town then it is for the feild thats supposed to protect it.

Town ack seems to no longer fire on aircraft.
I also think each feild should have more then one VH, Perhaps two. One at the feild and one very near the town.
also I'd like to see the amount of puffy ack doubled and become more accurate based on the size of the hor,,,err I mean formations flying near it.
would stand to reason the more enemy planes in the area, the more likely it woud be some of them get hit
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