Author Topic: History of the all black P-38J??  (Read 883 times)

Offline Simaril

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History of the all black P-38J??
« on: April 21, 2005, 11:07:35 PM »
I'm not a skinner, but love the history side -- and I'm interested in the background on that all black 38J dayfighter. can anybody point me in the right direction?


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Offline Ack-Ack

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History of the all black P-38J??
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2005, 12:22:38 AM »
One of my squad mates that has since left for the Army made that skin.  I think he got it from a squadron that flew P-38J Droop Snoops but the skin reminds me more of the P-38M nightfighters.  I think he actually made it before the G and J were added and was intended to be used with the P-38L.


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Offline Guppy35

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History of the all black P-38J??
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2005, 12:30:48 AM »
Actually I'd like to know where he saw it too :)

I've seen a couple of OD/Gray Js that had black undersides that were tested as intruders in the ETO, but never an all black one that was used outside of the M models.

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Offline 68KO

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History of the all black P-38J??
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2005, 01:24:45 PM »




the model in the back is black




This is A picture I like the best


This British Model 322


Here is where I got the info:
http://www.p-38online.com/models.html
« Last Edit: April 22, 2005, 02:18:36 PM by 68KO »
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Offline XtrmeJ

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History of the all black P-38J??
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2005, 03:32:06 PM »
Hmm, Odd canopy structure in the second picture.

Going to take a look at that.

Offline Howitzer

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History of the all black P-38J??
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2005, 03:48:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by XtrmeJ
Hmm, Odd canopy structure in the second picture.

Going to take a look at that.


Best guess is it had something to do with being a night fighter.  Was there an extra crew member in those planes, or some kind of tech stuff for the radar?

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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History of the all black P-38J??
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2005, 05:15:52 PM »
Yes, the radar operator sat behind the pilot, hunched over the screen.

The picture at the top of that series is the Duxford P-38, in its "California Cutie" scheme, as it was when it was destroyed in a fatal crash.
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Offline Simaril

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History of the all black P-38J??
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2005, 07:23:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by XtrmeJ
Hmm, Odd canopy structure in the second picture.

Going to take a look at that.



Yep, second crewman -- obviously best be underweight!!

That plane was my first attempt at kitbashing a model... no, I wont let you see a photo!!! :lol






68KO -- the top photo is black, not dark OD? Th eother ones dont appear to be of the silver snouted one we ahve in the game.....
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Offline Ack-Ack

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History of the all black P-38J??
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2005, 08:05:02 PM »
The skin is labeled as one from the 79th Fighter Squadron, 20th Fighter Group.  But I can't find anything in any 20th website I found that mentions an all black P-38H, J or L (20th flew all three types before switching to the P-51D).  So, I don't know how my squad mate came up with the all black P-38.  I do recall him mentioning one time that he made the skin for the L, to give it a night figher look since we didn't have any M's.  But the 20th never flew nightfighters.  Don't think he has Intardnet access in his part of the world at the moment but when I hear from him again, I'll ask him the story behind it.


While trying to find any thing on this skin, I ran across this story of Jack Ilfrey when he was with the 1st FG, the fighter group he was in before moving to the 20th.

Quote
Wild Portuguese Chase
In early November, the 1st Fighter Group learned of the invasion of North Africa. On the 8th, Colonel John Stone, 1FG CO, briefed them on their next mission: a non-stop 1500 mile flight to Oran, Algeria, noting that Gibraltar would be the only possible emergency stop. Gibraltar was "only" 1200 miles away. Their planned route took them across the Bay of Biscay, near the northwest corner of Spain, down the Portuguese coast, through the Straits of Gibraltar, and then to Oran. As the airfield at Gibraltar was always over-crowded, Col. Stone emphasized that they should only stop there for critical emergencies. On November 15 at 0630, in a fully-fueled Lightning, feeling like a guinea pig, Ilfrey took off from Chivenor Airdrome in Land's End. After a half hour of low-level flight, he felt a slight jolt - one of his 150-gallon belly tanks had fallen off. Under strict radio silence, Lt. Tony Syroi edged close to Ilfrey and displayed a hand-lettered sign "ONE BELLY TANK." Ilfrey signalled his understanding and re-calculated his options. After looking at his maps, he estimated that he could reach Gibraltar. The flight of planes, led by a B-26, headed west to avoid some thunderheads. Shortly, Ilfrey realized that he had to cut loose from the flight and head toward land; he was just too low on fuel. As he turned back east, he further realized that he wasn't going to make Gibralter. He would have to choose between ditching at sea or landing in Portugal or Spain. Recalling that the Portuguese were not quite as Axis-oriented as the Spaniards (whose leader, Franco, owed his victory in the recent civil war to German and Italian aid), Ilfrey was relieved to spot an airfield near Lisbon.

As he touched down, six horsemen with plumed hats, sabres, and pistols rode out to greet him, and gestured him toward the administration building. He did so and a crowd quickly assembled. An English-speaking official greeted him and led him into the building. The nineteenth-century style cavalrymen were ordered to watch his P-38. Inside, Ilfrey noticed a number of German airline pilots. When a big car screeched up and disgorged more officials, a real interrogation began. After an hour or so, he was informed that Portugal, as a neutral country, interned all combatant airplanes and pilots. This prospect did not appeal to Jack Ilfrey at all.

A Portuguese Air Force pilot expressed interest in the P-38; he had never seen any American fighter plan, let alone the large, unique P-38. They planned to fly the P-38 to a military airbase and refueled it. The pilot asked Ilfrey to explain the controls to him. Feeling somewhat guilty, he did so. As the Portuguese aviator sat on the wing and hundreds of people milled around, another Lightning came over to land. The cavalry galloped off to receive it and the crowd headed toward the new arrival.

Suddenly Ilfrey saw his moment and threw the throttles full forward. The Portuguse aviator tried to reach in to stop him, but the Lightning picked up speed and the propwash blew him off the plane. The bystanders' hats blew all over the place; Ilfrey slammed shut the canopy and headed back down the runway. As taxied and took off, he recognized the incoming Lightning as that of Capt. Jack Harman.

Airborne again, he was relieved, but still shaken; he had no parachute, no Mae West, and no maps. In the bright sunlight, he headed for Gibraltar, ignorant of the diplomatic firestorm he had just touched off. He spotted "The Rock" wihtout any difficulty and touched down at Gibraltar's airfield, squeezed up against a border fence where German lookouts monitored all the air traffic. He told his story, to amazed squadron mates and then to an infuriated Colonel Willis, CO of American operations at Gibraltar. Col. Willis chewed him out for not destroying the plane, for not thinking, for creating an international incident, etc. etc.

Ifrey suspected that the authorities woldn't throw him back to rot in a Lisbon detention center, although that possibility was greater than the optimistic, exuberant young pilot imagined. When Col. Willis informed him that indeed was Washington's directive, Ilfrey was incredulous. But Col. Willis took care of him, cabling Washington that the pilot in question had already left for North Africa. That day, Ilfrey did so. As for Jack Harman, as soon as he landed the Portuguese grabbed him by the neck and threw him in jail, with no opportunity for him to "demonstrate" his aircaraft.



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Offline Simaril

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History of the all black P-38J??
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2005, 05:43:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 68KO


snip

the model in the back is black



snip
 



Actually, I'm not so sure this is the picture we want. I found this shot in Bodie's P-38 book, and the F5 really is the peculiar specular "haze" blue that was briefly experimented with as a tool for "disappearing" into the high altitude day sky. As I recall from elsewhere (a Dana Bell article in Fine Scale Modeller?) the paint did work better than standard camo but took a great deal of effort in application, and had very short effective life before weathering and wear decreased its effectiveness.

Simaril
« Last Edit: April 23, 2005, 06:00:54 AM by Simaril »
Maturity is knowing that I've been an idiot in the past.
Wisdom is realizing I will be an idiot in the future.
Common sense is trying to not be an idiot right now

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Offline Jager

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The History of "Betsy VI"
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2005, 11:20:25 AM »
Betsy VI was a P-38 model J, A/C MC-Y droopsnoot.  The plane was flown by Lt. Russel W. Bebout and his crew of Sgt. G. Lucky, Cpl. E. Everhart and T/Sgt. J. Lane.  This crew flew for the 20th Fighter Group ("The Loco Busters"), 79th Fighter Squadron.

Here our some images:










And here are the links to where I got my history...Picture of the plane it self is on the top link, bottom of the page.:

http://members.fortunecity.com/ww2airmen/scrapbookd.html

http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/20thfg.jsp


Hope I awnsered everyones questions.

"Jager"

Offline Guppy35

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Re: The History of "Betsy VI"
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2005, 12:29:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jager
Betsy VI was a P-38 model J, A/C MC-Y droopsnoot.  The plane was flown by Lt. Russel W. Bebout and his crew of Sgt. G. Lucky, Cpl. E. Everhart and T/Sgt. J. Lane.  This crew flew for the 20th Fighter Group ("The Loco Busters"), 79th Fighter Squadron.


Hope I awnsered everyones questions.

"Jager"


Betsy VI was an OD/Gray bird.  Not sure what Black AH 38 folks are referring to is.

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Offline Jager

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History of the all black P-38J??
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2005, 01:45:55 PM »
looks black to me :)

Offline Guppy35

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History of the all black P-38J??
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2005, 02:16:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jager
looks black to me :)


Same squadron, Same group, same time frame, same paint scheme :)

Dan/CorkyJr
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