Author Topic: next scenario (Read 6913 times)

jordi · « **Reply #15 on:** May 06, 2005, 02:53:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Easyscor
In other words, the map should get some play in the CT and/or some snapshots BEFORE a scenario is designed.

That is like asking a programer to DOCUMENT his code before he releases it !

But yes - the more STRESS TESTING a terrain and setup can go through BEFORE Frame #1 the better.

If this means pushing BACK an event a week or 2 or 4 to make sure all is right and ready so be it.

Good points Easy.

Easyscor · « **Reply #16 on:** May 06, 2005, 07:36:59 PM »

You of all people will remember Ruhr valley, but I can't think of one except for Coral Sea that had it right.

The only place SilverFox messed up was the scoring. Everything else was right on, he did a great job. Now if the CM team can get the level bombers right instead of throwing them in for bait...

ROC · « **Reply #17 on:** May 06, 2005, 10:48:01 PM »

SF had the scoring right. No one expected a blowout, that had to be addressed, and it was addressed well. There was no mess up. I was on the design team, as was Filth the CO of Zulu, no where did any of us expect the outcome that came to pass.

CS was supposed to be a tie, one side should get a tactical victory while the other got a strategic victory, as was the real battle.

It is utterly impossible to predict the outcome of anything other than a pre-determined computerized event. When people are figured into the equation, then all bet's are off and you do the best you can, and handle the oddities.

Mess up? Not by a long shot. The event was fantastic in design, and every conceivable possibility accounted for and addressed with a solution.

Newman · « **Reply #18 on:** May 06, 2005, 11:27:30 PM »

I would agree on Coral Sea.

I was involved in a very small part of terrain testing, and an awful lot of getting the CV hardness/ guns set correctly.

Everything, but luck was taken into account.

Frame 1 Team Zulu still had the Shoho floating, and landed LVT's in Frame 2 to take Port Morseby. We were just a couple buildings and a few planes short of being able to make that happen.

In Frame 3 we were just about a bomb shy of sinking the Shoho...

ROC, and his Team had a better strategy, training, and a bit of luck

Looking forward to the next scenario, after Team Zulu has their way with ROC and Team R-Alpha in Frame 4 tomorrow

SALUTE!

Newman

Easyscor · « **Reply #19 on:** May 07, 2005, 12:41:59 AM »

lol, I wasn't trying to step on anyone’s toes.

Now that I reread what I wrote, what I meant to say was Coral Sea had less problems, then any scenario I’ve participated in. The only fault I could find was the scoring, everything else good.

You guys were happy with the original scoring, ok.

You know I was raising Cain about it early on before frame one and emailing excel spreadsheets; not because it tended to give a tie but because it always gave a tie, even with a blowout. After frame two that was untenable and the scoring system had to be changed to reflect the situation on the ground.

IMO Zulu could have won frame two except for a couple of missteps but that's a subject for another thread.

Newman · « **Reply #20 on:** May 07, 2005, 01:00:57 AM »

Yes.. Mistakes were made.. but second guessing can go on for ever!

The beauty of Coral Sea is that there is no way to directly defend Port Morseby. All the defense/ offense has to be from a bit of a distance. That, and the known start point for the Shoho.

It was set up to be a draw, and I wish it had been...

Kudo's to team R-Alpha!

SALUTE!

Newman

SilverFox · « **Reply #21 on:** May 07, 2005, 07:54:15 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Easyscor
You of all people will remember Ruhr valley, but I can't think of one except for Coral Sea that had it right.

The only place SilverFox messed up was the scoring. Everything else was right on, he did a great job. Now if the CM team can get the level bombers right instead of throwing them in for bait...

I have to agree with you on this one Easy. The plane attrition score was out of sync with the ship attrition, which obscured a clear tactical victory. This was caused by a chain reaction rooted in the large registered player base that caused us to rethink the numbers of rides, planes and squads. Although we met every day in the design forum, this was one item that I simply didn't address.

It does me good to hear all the positive comments folks. Yes, it was a lot of work, but it was a lot of fun, and something that I've wanted to do for years.

Hope we have a good turn out today

Schutt · « **Reply #22 on:** May 10, 2005, 07:15:46 AM »

Couldn t we have a battle of britan scenario in between if there is so long till the next scenario?

I loved the bob scenario.

Curval · « **Reply #23 on:** May 10, 2005, 07:32:47 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by ROCrats
Ploesti

I second that.

Eighth Airforce Berlin raid scenario or BoB would be choice #2/3.

jordi · « **Reply #24 on:** May 10, 2005, 08:01:24 AM »

To me the biggest problem any scenario faces is ATTENDANCE.

There does seem to be a CORE of dedicated scenario players here in AH.

And there is a dedicated core base of players who are willing to step in and LEAD in a command position ( CO or XO or GL ) and or help design and test a scenario design.

But that is a small group compared to the total number of players needed to fill out all the expected rides in each frame.

On average for MOST AH Scenarios you start out with a bunch of people on Frame #1 and each following frame the total # of pilots including walkons gets smaller and smaller.

This drop off in players can affect the whole setup and balance of the event.

The good thing is that as more and more QUALITY Scenarios are designed and run it draw in more and more NEW Pilots.

Hopefully this will ENLARGE the CORE Base of Scenario players so that the designers of these events can come up with a total # of pilots needed to make the scenario work according to thiner plans and they can feel assured that most of those pilots will stick it out till the end.

We as the players who enjoy scenarios have to make it our job to help out in any way to make each scenario work.

That means we need to HELP the new scenario players and make it an experience that draw those new players back for the next scenario.

That means we need to accept that we may have to fly a plane that is not our first choice to HELP OUT THE TEAM.

That means some people may need to step up and fill a command roll to HELP OUT THE TEAM.

If everyone who signs up for a scenario expects to be able to just show up on frame day and fly nothing will ever get done. The MORE Pilots who participate even in a small way the weeks and or months leading up to frame #1 the better the scenario experience will be for them and for all involved.

Alpo · « **Reply #25 on:** May 10, 2005, 09:06:24 AM »

Who left this soapbox in the middle of the floor?!?

Commitment to making the frames enjoyable to more individuals than just yourself is the philosophy that everyone needs to take. A scenario doesn't have the "all about me" feel, which is why they are appealing in the first place.

ROC · « **Reply #26 on:** May 10, 2005, 09:55:51 AM »

Quote

Jordi

Well Said.

SKJohn · « **Reply #27 on:** May 10, 2005, 11:49:31 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fury
Since I participated in Coral Sea and the one before that, I'd like to comment that I thought both scenarios were very well run....I mean not only on the Frame days themselves, but also the preparation and explanation of the events/rules/scoring etc before the frames started. I salute the entire CM team....many people may have so much fun in the Frames that they lose sight of the massive amount of behind-the-scenes time and effort put forth by you people to make the best thing (scenarios) about AH2 possible.

Ditto what Fury said. I've played in both Rangoon and Coral Sea, and had a blast in both!

As far as new scenarios, I grew up reading the story of the 8th air force bombing raids on Germany. I think it would be cool to do a side switching scenario based on a massive bomber raid to a specific target, with the appropriate fighter escort, with the Luftwaffe trying to stop them. Just a short, 2 week game - one week your're the Allies, the next the Luftwaffe, and vice versa.

Allies points are for bombs hitting the target, and less importatntly for German a/c shot down. German points are for preventing the damage to the target, just as in history.

A sky full of B-17's (or B-24's) with their escort P-51's weaving above them......the 109's and 190's being scrambled to intercept when radar picks up the incoming raid........
tension builds.....will they get there on time?.......will the escorts shoot down the Luftwaffe? Will they makwe it thrut he bomber formation's guns? (maybe for this scenario decrease the lethality of the bomber's guns a little?)

I think it would be cool!

ROC · « **Reply #28 on:** May 10, 2005, 12:48:12 PM »

SKJohn,

I'm working on one to present to the CM team that is just that.

I'm looking at a long flight from England to Russia, with a delivery on Germany in route. Then, the return flight next frame, bombing again, returning to England.

Still a way to go on it, but that is the premise.

There are some Very good Euro Bomber missions ahead for us all

jordi · « **Reply #29 on:** May 10, 2005, 01:55:26 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by SKJohn
As far as new scenarios, I grew up reading the story of the 8th air force bombing raids on Germany. I think it would be cool to do a side switching scenario based on a massive bomber raid to a specific target, with the appropriate fighter escort, with the Luftwaffe trying to stop them. Just a short, 2 week game - one week your're the Allies, the next the Luftwaffe, and vice versa.

Allies points are for bombs hitting the target, and less importatntly for German a/c shot down. German points are for preventing the damage to the target, just as in history.

A sky full of B-17's (or B-24's) with their escort P-51's weaving above them......the 109's and 190's being scrambled to intercept when radar picks up the incoming raid........
tension builds.....will they get there on time?.......will the escorts shoot down the Luftwaffe? Will they makwe it thrut he bomber formation's guns? (maybe for this scenario decrease the lethality of the bomber's guns a little?)

I think it would be cool!

We did just that as a scenario last year. I was the US CO. For frame #1 we had 60 Bomber pilots up at take off. Taht gave us 180 total B17's in the air counting the drones. It was an amazing experience. We also had special target tiles so we were countiong how many bombs hit that complete 1x1 square mile target tile to come up with a % of bombs on target to help determine part of the overall score.

The bomber guys took off 15 mnis early to help get to alt and form up and we had some landing 3+ hours later !

Jordi