Watch your words, especially if you are not from USA...

[funkedup]

I'm not trying to be a Netcop here, just hoping to explain what I see happening.

Please be careful what you post about the terrorist attacks.  People here in the US are pretty angry right now and not all are thinking rationally.  So if you post something that might be even slightly inflammatory, there could be a vicious response, even if you don't deserve it.

This is especially true if you are someone that is perceived as an outsider (not living in USA) or if English is not your first language.  We can't know the facial expression or tone of voice of the other people, so we can only go by words.  Very subtle connotations of words can give an idea about someone's meaning that is not always true.  With non-native English speakers typing messages to a bunch of angry Yanks this becomes even more likely.

Of course if you don't care about this community or aren't a member of it, and just come here to get attention and start arguments, then I guess it won't matter much to you.  

But for people who play Aces High, I'd hate to see the community damaged by discussions about things not at all related to the game.  Remember that we are here for fun, and anything that takes away from the fun doesn't belong here.

PS <S> Everybody from non-English-speaking countries who has taken the time to learn English.  I don't know any other languages well enough to converse, so it is only through your effort that we can communicate.  Thank you!

[Dinger]

Or another way:
I've got strong opinions on the US's role in the world, and I believe that many Americans are relatively ignorant of the systematic exploitation of the world in the name of Global Market Capitalism.

The murder of thousands of people of all major religions and from many, many nations is not an opportunity to discuss these things.  Sorry.  You want to be militant for what you believe is right, fine.  Yell at the top of your lungs; but if you, American or not, try to use this tragedy as an opportunity to lecture US citizens on their global responsibility, you will be seen (and rightly, IMO) as suggesting that in some sense this event has a reason or even a justification.  Sorry, it doesn't.  We can argue about the rest later.

I would also like to apologise to our Japanese friends, many of whom were lost in this tragedy.  When Amricans compare this event to Pearl Harbor, they are searching for parallels for an unparalleled event, and the closest they get is the shock of a nation that has undergone a surprise attack.  Pearl Harbor was a declaration of war, most of the victims were US citizens, and most of them were members of the military.  Pearl Harbor was a strategically brilliant strike executed with precision by a nation willing to go to war.  What we saw on Tuesday here was a precise attack that was of dubious strategic value, executed by faceless cowards for no greater purpose than killing people.  The Japanese who attacked Pearl Harbor had both balls and a sense of honor.

[straffo]

<PUNT>
Really  the word of wisdom Funkedup.

I'm rather proud to know someone like you
<S> you deserve it.

[capt. apathy]

 . The Japanese who attacked Pearl Harbor had both balls and a sense of honor.

While the Japanese did strike a military target and individual soldiers following orders fought for their country with honor.
   I have a bit of a problem seeing officers who planed and executed an act of war against a country that didn't know it was at war as honorable. And I personally make no apology for any parallels I make between the 2 events.

[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: capt. apathy ]

[AKDejaVu]

Capt. Apathy... I agree somewhat with your assesment though I also believe there is a possibility that the Japanese Navy attacking Pearl Harbor did not know that war had not yet been declared.

That said... My views of what happened in WW2 in no way affect my view of the Japanese people today.

AKDejaVu

[Pepe]

S! Funked. Let me try to translate to Spanish and ease things a bit for spanish people. I think your post is extremely sensible and rational.

"No voy a hacer de policía de internet aquí, sólo deseo explicar lo que creo que va a ocurrir.

Por favor, tened cuidado con lo que publicáis sobre los ataques terroristas. La gente en los Estados Unidos está muy enfadada ahora y no todos piensan racionalmente. Es decir, si publicáis algo que pudiera ser tan sólo ligeramente ofensivo, podría producir un resultado peligroso, incluso si no lo merecéis.

Esto es especialmente cierto si se percibe que sóis extranjeros (no vivís en los Estados Unidos de América) o si el Inglés no es vuestra lengua materna. No podemos ver vuestra vuestras caras, ni oir vuestro tono de voz, tan solo podemos leer las palabras. Interpretaciones sutiles de las palabras pueden dar una idea sobre lo que alguien dice que podría no ser la correcta. Esta circunstancia se hace más probable cuando gente cuya lengua materna no es el Inglés publica mensajes a un monton de Americanos enfurecidos.

Por supuesto, si no os preocupa esta comunidad o no sóis miembros, y aparecéis por aquí sólo para llamar la atención y promover discusiones, me imagino que no os importará demasiado.

Pero por lo que respecta a la gente que juega AH, odiaría ver nuestro grupo perjudicado por discusiones sobre cosas en absoluto relativas al juego. Recordad que estamos aquí para divertirnos, y cualquier cosa que restrinja la diversión está fuera de lugar.

PD <S> a todos aquellos que, no siendo de paises angloparlantes se han tomado el tiempo de aprender inglés. No conozco ningún otro idioma lo suficiente para conversar, por lo que sólamente podemos comunicarnos gracias a vuestro esfuerzo. Gracias!"

S! again. This is one of the best heads up ever in this board, IMHO.

Cheers,

Pepe

[Thrawn]

Dude, I'll say what I want, when I want.  Difference between living in a free democracy and a totalitarian regime, eh?  

[funkedup]

You can do whatever you want Thrawn.  It was advice given as politely as I know how, not an order.

<S> Straffo & Pepe

[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

[AKDejaVu]

Thrawn, I can't understand a single word you said.  Could you please use a Canadian to English translator?

AKDejaVu

[capt. apathy]

Dejavu-
 Absolutely, just because I find the actions of the commanders of the Japanese navy despicable in WW2. I meant it as no reflection on today’s Japan.  That was then this is now.
 As far as individual fighting men, nobody usually asks whether or not you approve of your orders, no matter what side of the war you are on.
 As for the men who planned the attack, they knew full well when the declaration of war would be delivered, it was a critical part of the plan.

[ 09-14-2001: Message edited by: capt. apathy ]

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by funkedup:
You can do whatever you want Thrawn.  It was advice given as politely as I know how, not an order.

<S> Straffo & Pepe

[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

Sorry, I missunderstood.

[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: Thrawn ]

[Yoj]

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
Capt. Apathy... I agree somewhat with your assesment though I also believe there is a possibility that the Japanese Navy attacking Pearl Harbor did not know that war had not yet been declared.

That said... My views of what happened in WW2 in no way affect my view of the Japanese people today.

AKDejaVu

Small trivial aside - in fact the IJN did NOT know war was not declared.  It was supposed to have been 30 minutes before the attack started, but the message was delayed in translation and delivery by the Japanese embassy in Washington.  It was Yamamoto's realization that war had not been declared that prompted his "sleeping giant" quote.

- Yoj

[Maverick]

Just as a side point here. Let me speak from a historical angle.

As has already been stated, the attack on Pearl Harbor was a military action taken against a military target. Forces that believed their country had already served a declaration of war carried it out. We certainly had enough indications it was coming. (in hind sight)

Now as far as the tactical aspect, it was brilliantly conceived and executed. The attack results were almost anything the Japanese could have hoped for. Whether or not the attack happened before or after the declaration is really a moot point as far as the outcome is concerned. They would have lost the war and Adm. Yamamoto knew and advised on that result.

The only real aspect in doubt would have been the terms of surrender. Would the allies have stood by a NON CONDITIONAL surrender and possibly the atomic bombing?

It really is improper to compare an act of war and an act of terrorism unless the perpetrator is a national entity. The barbarity of Sept. 11, is head and shoulders above an accepted act of war. This was, and is, a criminal act against the defenseless using the helpless as tools of destruction and death.

The fact that the leading suspect has indicated he and his group are at war with the U.S. is not sufficient justification for what has occurred. In any event, there are recognized rules of war (surreal concept, performing uncivilized acts in a civilized manner) and there are repercussions for violating those rules. First we have to determine who is responsible then determine how we will get them.

Mav

[Vladd]

Very nice post Funked. My own thoughts (and words) have been running strongly in an identical direction recently.

See Dowding's post on the unprecedented changing of the guard today to get an impression of how we in the UK see and feel about things.

Shoulder to shoulder against the barbarians. But remember what it is which makes US the civilised ones.


Vladd