Author Topic: Even the Department of Justice agrees  (Read 1580 times)

Offline Terror

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Even the Department of Justice agrees
« on: May 09, 2005, 03:14:05 PM »
Quote

For the foregoing reasons, we conclude that the Second Amendment secures an individual right to keep and to bear arms.


From http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm

A well written interpretation of the Second Amendment concluding that the Second Amendment is about Individual right, not states or government rights.

Terror

Offline Sandman

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Even the Department of Justice agrees
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2005, 03:24:00 PM »
Hmmm... IIRC, the Attorney General is part of the Executive Branch, not the Judicial Branch.
sand

Offline Fishu

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Even the Department of Justice agrees
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2005, 03:48:21 PM »
It's one of the most outdated parts of the constitution... everything else sooner or later gets modified in some way to reflect the requirements of todays world.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2005, 03:56:26 PM »
The day the Second gets "revised" will probably be marked in history books as the beginning of the Second Civil War.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Fishu

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« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2005, 04:40:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
The day the Second gets "revised" will probably be marked in history books as the beginning of the Second Civil War.


So its worth it to start a war over exagerated amounts of guns and also ruin the living stantards?

Gee..  some people are in worse need of a shrink than I thought.

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2005, 04:45:59 PM »
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So its worth it to start a war over exagerated amounts of guns and also ruin the living stantards?


It has nothing to do with 'living standards'. Freemen remain free only when they have the ability to defend themselves. There's a  difference between a 'right' and  just wanting something.

Who are you to say anything about what's 'outdated' in our constitution anyway? What study have you made of it?

The 2nd Amendment isn't just an issue of the 18th century.

However, its doesn't really matter a whole lot what the Justice Department thinks. The AG doesn't tell the Court whats what, it happens the other way around.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2005, 05:16:45 PM »
TY, Wotan.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2005, 05:23:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu
It's one of the most outdated parts of the constitution... everything else sooner or later gets modified in some way to reflect the requirements of todays world.



Ummm, you live in Finland.....who are you to tell us which parts of our Constitution are outdated? :)
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2005, 05:52:56 PM »
I firmy believe it is the most important right.


Without it out ultra melone politicoes would walk on us even more.





Maybe if you cared more about rights in finland your government would not have gone to that wacky light for months dark for months system that seems to drive you people mad.

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2005, 05:53:16 PM »
I firmy believe it is the most important right.


Without it our ultra melon politicoes would walk on us even more.





Maybe if you cared more about rights in finland your government would not have gone to that wacky light for months dark for months system that seems to drive you people mad.

Offline Swoop

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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2005, 06:17:59 PM »
If the British had some equivalent right to bear arms there'd have been a revolution by now......

damn I wish we did.


Offline Fishu

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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2005, 08:35:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
It has nothing to do with 'living standards'. Freemen remain free only when they have the ability to defend themselves. There's a  difference between a 'right' and  just wanting something.


Living stantards had to do with the revolution thing, started by change of the 2nd amendment.
Revolutions are quite messy business.
Besides the private gun owners would have little say in a revolution.

Nowadays it'd be all about the actual army and their equiptment.
Whoever the army supports, will be leading the country as he wishes and nobody has any say in that, did the 2nd amendment exist or not.
If part of the army defects to rebels, that army would play a major role in the revolution, not "the people of the 2nd amendment".
It could been different back in the days, when "the people of the 2nd amendment" WERE the army.
Back then you could've also fought the enemy also with bayonets, because the enemy was equipped with similar weapons.

Besides, why to force people into something, it's all about manipulation nowadays.
So, in practice the 2nd amendment hardly protects anyones freedom.

The Bush government already got you guys into a war against Iraq, with the major reasons for the war being lies. All they did, was to manipulate majority of the people to support the war by making them believe it's all true and an immediate threat to their lives.
the capitalism and free press is a lovely thing when you lead them with a carrot at the far end of a stick.
If need be, the media makes up the opinion of the majority to support your agenda.
No gun nor constitution protected your freedom from a propaganda, a fact which hundreds of US soldiers and families have faced with the Iraq war.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2005, 08:39:54 PM by Fishu »

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2005, 08:47:16 PM »
Any person who does not think a pissed off person or group of people with a gun can not make trouble for an Army, even one as mighty as the US Army just has to look to Iraq.


Plus the US army is made of US citizens, you would be hard pressed to get most to shoot their uncles, brothers and fathers.

Offline Fishu

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« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2005, 08:59:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
Any person who does not think a pissed off person or group of people with a gun can not make trouble for an Army, even one as mighty as the US Army just has to look to Iraq.


So the rebels in Iraq are winning the "war" for Iraq, eh?
Besides, the explosives aren't covered by the 2nd amendment, thats what creates most of the victims in Iraq, soldiers and civilians.
People with just firearms wouldn't be big of a trouble down there, at most a nuisance, even if deadly at that.
Without a strong army, they would be inferior in training, organization and supply, unable to start any kind of a decisive campaign.
It is all about the control of the conventional army.


Quote
Plus the US army is made of US citizens, you would be hard pressed to get most to shoot their uncles, brothers and fathers.


Well, they already did that back in the 19th century, didn't they.
Besides, that just leads to my point again; the control of the army.
If they feel it'd be wrong to fight for the cause of the government, they would become defectors, which in effect would mean a conventional rebel army, which again would mean they'd be the bulk of the revolutionary forces.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2005, 09:08:49 PM by Fishu »

Offline bunch

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Even the Department of Justice agrees
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2005, 09:26:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu
It's one of the most outdated parts of the constitution... everything else sooner or later gets modified in some way to reflect the requirements of todays world.


how do you know the world doesnt reflect the modifications?